About Esuna, Exalted Detriment and Leeches change

[Fyce]

-snip-

The whole cross-role system can be completly scrapped then.
"If that skill were build in the class...", that can be said about every cross-role skill, making the system itself pointless.

[Nyghtmarerobu]

1) Luminiferous Aether and Shroud of Saints, are being ripped unreasonably from AST and WHM respectively and put into the Cross Role as Lucid Dreaming, which is unnecessary!

Aether and Shroud of Saints do the same thing in practice, but 1 is stronger than the other, and one reduces enmity. They are not exactly the same, and a person could say one is stronger than the other. Consolidating them makes it fair across the board.

2) Esuna, Exalted Detriment and Leeches, are all being unreasonably taken away from their respective healers and combined into one ability called Esuna within the Cross Role, which is also unnecessary.

Esuna was learned at a lower level, and making it accessible at a lower level by role skills is a pretty good move. Waiting till lvl 40 to get leeches was kind of silly imo.

3) The Heal Buff component of Synastry (AST), Divine Seal and the Heal Buff component of Dissipation (SCH) are ALSO unreasonably being ripped from their respective healers and shoved into the Cross Role as Largesse.

This by far is the best one for role skills. While you are correct that all healers have "divine seal" in some shape or fashion, it was always tacked onto somethign else, except for whm's actual divine seal. When using Dissipation, you lose your fairy and gain aetherflow stacks for the 20% Healing magic potency. Astro on the other hand has theirs tied to synastry. Its a great skill, but like dissipation, if you use it for just the healing magic potency increase, you lose out on what the skill could actually be useful for. Making a seperate role skill specifically for divine seal for all healers is a good move, and makes the use of dissipation, and Synastry much more meaningful.

You went full retard SE... you never go full retard...

Stormblood isn't even out yet.. how can you call them retarded when you haven't even tried it out? You might dislike and disagree, but why not come back in a few days after you've had time to actually try your hand at it before passing judgment... same goes for everyone else..

[MrSmiley]

The whole cross-role system can be completly scrapped then.
"If that skill were build in the class...", that can be said about every cross-role skill, making the system itself pointless.

cross class is now trying to double as both role necessity and niche choice at the same time. As a result, only the first half is going to matter. There is no point in those 10 skills "choice" if 4-5 of them will almost never see any use because they put all the role required spells into it.

Its kinda worse now for healers because we now have more options but less choice.

[Fyce]

cross class is now trying to double as both role necessity and niche choice at the same time. As a result, only the first half is going to matter. There is no point in those 10 skills "choice" if 4-5 of them will almost never see any use because they put all the role required spells into it.

Its kinda worse now for healers because we now have more options but less choice.

"Almost never see any use" is different than "never see any use" though.
The current cross-class system actually had completly useless skills. Now, even if the use is niche, we might see some utility coming from the other skills.

Sure, it's not ideal and there could have been a loadout system to help us switch easily depending on the content we're doing, and they could've been more creative with the skills and their overall balance...
But at least it's not worse than the cross-class system which even forced you to level up jobs you may didn't want to play.

Besides, the healers having only one slot for customization is still better than what the ranged DPS have to deal with.

[Elamys]

Aether and Shroud of Saints do the same thing in practice, but 1 is stronger than the other, and one reduces enmity. They are not exactly the same, and a person could say one is stronger than the other. Consolidating them makes it fair across the board.

This is wrong. They both reduce enmity generation. Both have a refresh potency of 80, but since AST's is longer (24s vs. WHM's 15s), it does refresh more. WHM also has Assize though, which can probably account for the difference. AST has to lose out on an AoE party buff to use Ewer.

[Nyghtmarerobu]

This is wrong. They both reduce enmity generation. Both have a refresh potency of 80, but since AST's is longer (24s vs. WHM's 15s), it does refresh more. WHM also has Assize though, which can probably account for the difference. AST has to lose out on an AoE party buff to use Ewer.

This isn't a fair comparison, since you are adding in outside factors. I was comparing the skills against each other, and while they both reduce enmity, (my mistake) Aether still has a longer duration, resulting in more procs. That would make Aether the stronger of the two.

[Ootarion]

Why can't people see this... Because people are blind and only see what they want to see. You make REALLY good arguments too.

It so seems that SE wants to do subjobs... without the subjobs (because it's too "FFXI")... to give options.. yet relegate us to use specific abilities anyways! So what's the point of all this? There's really no choice. You're going to always choose specific abilities EVERY time. So why bother with this. Why? What is the point?

They could have easily just remade it so that a quest for each job gave protect, esuna, w/e the stupid named MP regen is now, LD, and made them universal. But no, they do this cross class BS. You went full retard SE... you never go full retard...

Thaaaaaaank you!

This over and over and over again. We realize that roulettes and stuff are easy and it doesn't REALLY matter but come on we like to run effectively and being able to remove heavy can make me have to heal less and DPS more.

If every single healer had these thing in their kit already why bother making them role actions? It just doesn't have any logical explanation.

Protect, E4E, Surecast, Swiftcast are understandable. But cleanser, H% boost, and MP recover are already set in each class in some fashion.

Really this only helps SCH in the long run cause now we have even more MP recovering ability and can DPS even more. Too bad our DPS got nerfed with the bane nerf.

I was saying something along these lines to a friend earlier, really, this change is only helping SCH because for one it gives them an earlier Cleanser, earlier Heal Buff and a powerful MP Regen, not like they needed it....

[Elamys]

This isn't a fair comparison, since you are adding in outside factors. I was comparing the skills against each other, and while they both reduce enmity, (my mistake) Aether still has a longer duration, resulting in more procs. That would make Aether the stronger of the two.

Including outside factors in this case is important. If LA/Shroud were added to cross role to equalize them and make them fair, but WHM's loss of refresh potency was balanced by something else, then there was no need to make them "fair" to begin with. I'll be upfront and say that I don't raid at a high level, but my experience with MP management between AST and WHM has largely been the same.

Besides, if they felt it was unbalanced, why fix it by adding it into cross role actions as opposed to adjusting them to be the same? People have a problem with the cross role actions because it's touted as a way to customize your character, the ONLY way, in fact, and then they made it so healers really only get one, maybe two choices on what to take. Don't give us all these neat cross role options then make it useless to use any of the new stuff.

[Ootarion]

This is wrong. They both reduce enmity generation. Both have a refresh potency of 80, but since AST's is longer (24s vs. WHM's 15s), it does refresh more. WHM also has Assize though, which can probably account for the difference. AST has to lose out on an AoE party buff to use Ewer.

Actually, Luminiferous Aether does NOT reduce enmity generation, if it did, the tooltip would say so.

This isn't a fair comparison, since you are adding in outside factors. I was comparing the skills against each other, and while they both reduce enmity, (my mistake) Aether still has a longer duration, resulting in more procs. That would make Aether the stronger of the two.

For once you and I actually agree on something if only partially Nyght. However even if Luminiferous Aether is the stronger of the two, all they need to do is either extend Shroud of Saints duration or lower Luminiferous Aether's to like 20 and raise Shroud of Saints to 20 seconds as well. But should they remove these two abilities from their respective classes just to resolve the problem? No.

Addendum: Though I think the reason why Luminiferous Aether had a longer duration, was because unlike Shroud of Saints it had no built in Enmity reduction, had to balance that out with something.

[Elamys]

Actually, Luminiferous Aether does NOT reduce enmity generation, if it did, the tooltip would say so.

Either my tooltip is wrong, and has been wrong since I got my AST soulstone, or there is some misinformation going around here.

https://image.prntscr.com/image/zgH-...ivmNNjJoIA.png

here is a screenshot of the tooltip as it currently appears in game. Containing the phrase "Reduces enmity generation."