About Esuna, Exalted Detriment and Leeches change

[Elamys]

Aether and Shroud of Saints do the same thing in practice, but 1 is stronger than the other, and one reduces enmity. They are not exactly the same, and a person could say one is stronger than the other. Consolidating them makes it fair across the board.

This is wrong. They both reduce enmity generation. Both have a refresh potency of 80, but since AST's is longer (24s vs. WHM's 15s), it does refresh more. WHM also has Assize though, which can probably account for the difference. AST has to lose out on an AoE party buff to use Ewer.

[Nyghtmarerobu]

This is wrong. They both reduce enmity generation. Both have a refresh potency of 80, but since AST's is longer (24s vs. WHM's 15s), it does refresh more. WHM also has Assize though, which can probably account for the difference. AST has to lose out on an AoE party buff to use Ewer.

This isn't a fair comparison, since you are adding in outside factors. I was comparing the skills against each other, and while they both reduce enmity, (my mistake) Aether still has a longer duration, resulting in more procs. That would make Aether the stronger of the two.

[Elamys]

This isn't a fair comparison, since you are adding in outside factors. I was comparing the skills against each other, and while they both reduce enmity, (my mistake) Aether still has a longer duration, resulting in more procs. That would make Aether the stronger of the two.

Including outside factors in this case is important. If LA/Shroud were added to cross role to equalize them and make them fair, but WHM's loss of refresh potency was balanced by something else, then there was no need to make them "fair" to begin with. I'll be upfront and say that I don't raid at a high level, but my experience with MP management between AST and WHM has largely been the same.

Besides, if they felt it was unbalanced, why fix it by adding it into cross role actions as opposed to adjusting them to be the same? People have a problem with the cross role actions because it's touted as a way to customize your character, the ONLY way, in fact, and then they made it so healers really only get one, maybe two choices on what to take. Don't give us all these neat cross role options then make it useless to use any of the new stuff.

[Ootarion]

This is wrong. They both reduce enmity generation. Both have a refresh potency of 80, but since AST's is longer (24s vs. WHM's 15s), it does refresh more. WHM also has Assize though, which can probably account for the difference. AST has to lose out on an AoE party buff to use Ewer.

Actually, Luminiferous Aether does NOT reduce enmity generation, if it did, the tooltip would say so.

This isn't a fair comparison, since you are adding in outside factors. I was comparing the skills against each other, and while they both reduce enmity, (my mistake) Aether still has a longer duration, resulting in more procs. That would make Aether the stronger of the two.

For once you and I actually agree on something if only partially Nyght. However even if Luminiferous Aether is the stronger of the two, all they need to do is either extend Shroud of Saints duration or lower Luminiferous Aether's to like 20 and raise Shroud of Saints to 20 seconds as well. But should they remove these two abilities from their respective classes just to resolve the problem? No.

Addendum: Though I think the reason why Luminiferous Aether had a longer duration, was because unlike Shroud of Saints it had no built in Enmity reduction, had to balance that out with something.

[Elamys]

Actually, Luminiferous Aether does NOT reduce enmity generation, if it did, the tooltip would say so.

Either my tooltip is wrong, and has been wrong since I got my AST soulstone, or there is some misinformation going around here.

https://image.prntscr.com/image/zgH-...ivmNNjJoIA.png

here is a screenshot of the tooltip as it currently appears in game. Containing the phrase "Reduces enmity generation."

[Ootarion]

Either my tooltip is wrong, and has been wrong since I got my AST soulstone, or there is some misinformation going around here.

https://image.prntscr.com/image/zgH-...ivmNNjJoIA.png

here is a screenshot of the tooltip as it currently appears in game. Containing the phrase "Reduces enmity generation."

Oh....well you were right, I must have been confusing the Enmity interactions between Shroud of Saints and Luminiferous Aether, my apologies >.<

[Nyghtmarerobu]

For once you and I actually agree on something if only partially Nyght. However even if Luminiferous Aether is the stronger of the two, all they need to do is either extend Shroud of Saints duration or lower Luminiferous Aether's to like 20 and raise Shroud of Saints to 20 seconds as well. But should they remove these two abilities from their respective classes just to resolve the problem? No.

This is a perfect example of why I said we should look at the bigger picture before we judge why things are going the direction they are. Having the skills go back to their respective jobs, would end up leaving sch out in the rain so to speak. With the Aetherflow change that was made, they have lost out on MP regen, and now were not being fair to them. You could say, "Lets just return it back to normal", but that also changes how it works for summoner. This change could be something Over powered for them that would make them a much more viable pick over redmage and blackmage in content. I'm far reaching in speculation, but I'm trying to make the point that there is a ripple effect to making changes without looking at how it will effect everyone.

[Ootarion]

This is a perfect example of why I said we should look at the bigger picture before we judge why things are going the direction they are. Having the skills go back to their respective jobs, would end up leaving sch out in the rain so to speak. With the Aetherflow change that was made, they have lost out on MP regen, and now were not being fair to them. You could say, "Lets just return it back to normal", but that also changes how it works for summoner. This change could be something Over powered for them that would make them a much more viable pick over redmage and blackmage in content. I'm far reaching in speculation, but I'm trying to make the point that there is a ripple effect to making changes without looking at how it will effect everyone.

The solution shouldnt be to take the MP regens away from WHM and AST as built in abilities just to give one to SCH when they can just give one to Scholar. Not like White Mage doesnt have two methods of restoring MP (IE Shroud of Saints and Assize which restores 10% mp)

[Nyghtmarerobu]

The solution shouldnt be to take the MP regens away from WHM and AST as built in abilities just to give one to SCH when they can just give one to Scholar. Not like White Mage doesnt have two methods of restoring MP (IE Shroud of Saints and Assize which restores 10% mp)

Can we not try to validate your point by bringing up other skills that are not part of Lucid Dream / Shroud of saints / Lumineferous Aether? These are the things you are specifically trying to get fixed, and its not fair to throw Assize into the Mix, as much as it is Ewer, or any other MP regen ability. With that said, my point still stands...

I'm trying to make the point that there is a ripple effect to making changes without looking at how it will effect everyone.

They've gone through the play testing and balancing, and I think the devs have a handle on whats going on.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

They both reduce enmity generation.

Incorrect, but I can see why you'd be confused. SoS cuts all current enmity in half at the time it's used. Aether is basically quelling strikes. Inaccurate comparison is inaccurate.