Please give ARR/HW content life with minimum ilevel

[Ghastly]

Here to remind them again that we need earlier content to have some kind of life outside the relic steps.
I feel like minimum ilevel runs could do this if they reward something better than better minion drop rates.

[Vidu]

I'm a bit torn on this to be honest - yes, we need better reasons to re-run olf dungeons than the relic, but at the same time I kinda want to be done with them by now aswell. I dont want to go back to Sastasha NM again and again - yes, I know, we have to, new players and all that. But whatever reason they give us, I feel it has to be something less "grindy" in a sense (if you understand what I mean).

Also: minimum ilvl runs cant do that - if I'm not terribly mistaken you can only queue for minimum ilvl as full group and unless you just want reasons to re-run those dungeons with your friends and not queue in with DF-pugs, it wont help (I'm also not sure if minimum ilvl increases the droprates for minions - somehow I thought it only increased it for songs and special primal-drops?).

My point basically is: Even if I understand that we'll have to re-run those dungeons for the sake of new people again, I can barely stand the thought right now (got a couple copperbells for mentor-roulette recently, I was soooo happy /sarcasm off) so I agree - they need 1) better rewards and 2) rewards that are grindy without feeling grindy - which sounds like a tough task and its excatly that, but just putting us through the old dungeons for our relic again and again cant be the solution...

[Core1019]

I agree there needs to be more incentive to run stuff synced. Trying to get a pug together to do savage 2nd coil synced is pretty much impossible (also, don't really want people joining that did coil normal unsynced tbh).

I'd imagine there will be much the same problem with alex savage (and normal for that matter) once SB hits. Personally i'd say simply ban unsyncing savage content, especially coil since it serves no purpose other than for pride in having done it. But i get the feeling this is a never ever since SE wants everything to be accessible to everyone.

[Belhi]

I agree there needs to be more incentive to run stuff synced. Trying to get a pug together to do savage 2nd coil synced is pretty much impossible (also, don't really want people joining that did coil normal unsynced tbh).

I'd imagine there will be much the same problem with alex savage (and normal for that matter) once SB hits. Personally i'd say simply ban unsyncing savage content, especially coil since it serves no purpose other than for pride in having done it. But i get the feeling this is a never ever since SE wants everything to be accessible to everyone.

Ban Unsyncing and the number of people interested in going back and doing would just dry up anyway.

The problem with adding rewards to old content is for people who have completed the content in the past it just becomes an easy farm. If you have Coils down pat then any rewards become extremely easy to obtain. More over most veteran players will chose to run that old content, particularly ilvl synced, with other veterans who already know the fights so there wouldn't be much benefit to people how haven't seen them before.

People just naturally become less interested in old content. I wouldn't touch Crystal Tower again if it wasn't an easy way to get Aether Oils. I have long since run that place to death.

[Masekase_Hurricane]

Why don't they just add rare and common crafting mats to the mobs. They could also make all ARR dungeons/HW reward company seals too. This way the dungeons/raids would have a constant lifespan. Putting actual gear rewards is pointless as once they have it they won't run it again.

[KisaiTenshi]

Ban Unsyncing and the number of people interested in going back and doing would just dry up anyway.

The problem with adding rewards to old content is for people who have completed the content in the past it just becomes an easy farm. If you have Coils down pat then any rewards become extremely easy to obtain. More over most veteran players will chose to run that old content, particularly ilvl synced, with other veterans who already know the fights so there wouldn't be much benefit to people how haven't seen them before.

People just naturally become less interested in old content. I wouldn't touch Crystal Tower again if it wasn't an easy way to get Aether Oils. I have long since run that place to death.

I'd love to run those old raids again, but literately, the minute V3.0 dropped the queues for those no longer exist. Chances are they'd become too much of a faceroll to run unsynced as well.

That's kinda the core problem we all keep running into, the content becomes too easy and boring. Other games try to incentivize old content by attaching rewards for doing things at certain difficulties, but in all fairness, that doesn't help things, it just encourages people to farm it until that item drops and then abandon it.


What needs to happen is disincentives for abandoning, kicking, disconnecting or exiting from content at certain phases. Right now people eat a 30 minute penalty, and that's preferable to spending 90 minutes doing a dungeon you don't want to do. This should be a debuff applied to all players that were in the party that prevents ALL World NPC's but one in the Hall of the Newbie called "Teamwork" from talking to you.

Under the hood, the game should require all the players that were in the party to select to dispute the debuff. Going offline does not tick down the debuff. If one person does not dispute it, then everyone keeps it. If everyone disputes it, but "the reason I think I was kicked/vote abandon" doesn't match, debuff remains. It's a simple way to check that players are not kicking for malicious reasons. Other games have similar functionality for "crimes" in the game. The reasons for debuff will list more specific things like:

"[Player Name], was [AFK|Disconnected|Idle|Chat spam|Cheating|Abandoned] at [Start|Regular Monsters|A Midboss|the End Boss] with (time remaining when kicked)"

That would solve most of the "I don't want to do this" type of actions, by creating a disincentive for abandoning. If something was legitimately too hard and abandoned it would be like:

"Party was unable to [Work together|cause enough damage|prevent taking damage] to defeat [Start|Regular Monsters|A Midboss| the End Boss] with (time remaining when abandoned)"

The way to tick the debuff down, if it won't be removed is to talk to the NPC and ask "How do I remove this?" And they will be presented with "Community Service (time remaining)" or "Jail Time (time remaining)"

Jail time, simply puts the player in a "Jail" instance where the debuff ticks down at 1:1, the player can also attempt to jail break by sneaking past the guards by hiding in shadows. If caught, time resets. If not caught, time continues to tick down outside the Jail. Occasionally drop a immediate-kill bomb in the player's cell, so the player can't simply AFK in the jail, they have to actually move around, time doesn't tick down while knocked out.

Community Service requires the player to be help take down FATE's that other players are participating in. Time spent in completed FATE's non-solo will tick down the debuff at 1:1

Players that are repeatedly kicked or abandon instances after any combat takes place will have the debuff's take longer to drop off. Dispute history drops off after 30 days. So all bad behavior is treated equally. Only one "disconnect" will be allowed within that time frame.

[Core1019]

snip

holy shit, talk about a party pooper. Got kicked one too many times lately?

Sometimes people legitimately have to leave in the middle of a duty, and I seriously doubt 80% of the player base could accurately tell you why they were failing at a certain point in an instance. I think the current penalty system is fine.

We do need more incentives to run older content properly though. A savage/ex roulette would be a good start, if it only put you in duties you'd already cleared with people who haven't. Obviously this would be disasterous most of the time, so make the rewards worth it, say 350-400 tomes (assuming 450 weekly cap) and only queueable solo.

The other main incentive I could see working would be some situational gear, for example a weapon that does ice damage (higher damage vs ifrit/scorpion boss in sohm al hard etc), but that would mean opening up horizontal progression which yoship seems to have an allergy to.

[KisaiTenshi]

holy shit, talk about a party pooper. Got kicked one too many times lately?

Sometimes people legitimately have to leave in the middle of a duty, and I seriously doubt 80% of the player base could accurately tell you why they were failing at a certain point in an instance. I think the current penalty system is fine.

We do need more incentives to run older content properly though. A savage/ex roulette would be a good start, if it only put you in duties you'd already cleared with people who haven't. Obviously this would be disasterous most of the time, so make the rewards worth it, say 350-400 tomes (assuming 450 weekly cap) and only queueable solo.

The other main incentive I could see working would be some situational gear, for example a weapon that does ice damage (higher damage vs ifrit/scorpion boss in sohm al hard etc), but that would mean opening up horizontal progression which yoship seems to have an allergy to.

I've only been kicked once. I've seen vote kick windows several times. I have seen more party abandons after a single attempt at the first boss, and that is the the reason why people hate queueing for the 24-man content because it only takes one sad-sack party to invoke Abandon. Want to play Extreme or Raid content? Well too bad for you Duty Finder PUG group, someone had a bad day, Abandon.

What I'm suggesting is make the penalty for Abandoning/Exiting equal just completing the thing and running out of time. If people are going to abuse the kick/abandon mechanic, it needs to come with the price of how long it would have taken to just suck it up.

[Mirateski]

Tbf, if people wanted to run the content synched, you'd see more people running the content synched. I have quite a few synched lv50 EX primal clears and I joined the game in 3.1. Like hell would I farm them synched, though, people are bad and my time is precious.

(Edit: I am also pretty bad, most of the time anyway. Save me from myself)

I'd like to see more incentives for old content, though. (I'm sure someone said you needed ss2 to survive t13's ult at min ilv though, which has since been banned from in combat casts/removed entirely (thanks SB), so there might need to be some tuning to make it doable?) If you put a lockout on min ilv coil that made you have to run it like a current raid, ie in order, and have it drop a mount or something at the end, people would show up briefly. If you increased any kind of reward for regular content, people would be more inclined to run it. The thing is, better drop rates at min ilv compensate for the fact that you can run say ultima ex like five times unsynched in the time it takes to clear it once properly - so I'd damn well hope I was 5x more likely to get a drop.

[Reynhart]

For me, a good way to make us run old content is to make a "returning bonus". Basically, this is the same thing as "first time player bonus", but for content that you haven't done since a specified time. (For example, one month)

What would be really nice about that is for mass tomestone farming. People tend to analyze what's the fastest way, and only run that specific content over and over. But, with a proper bonus (Based on your level instead of the level of the content), the "fastest way" will shift constantly, until you've dried up all your returning bonuses.

And, same as first time bonus, the returning bonus will give you points for Wondrous Tails.