Please give ARR/HW content life with minimum ilevel

[Ghastly]

Here to remind them again that we need earlier content to have some kind of life outside the relic steps.
I feel like minimum ilevel runs could do this if they reward something better than better minion drop rates.

[Vidu]

I'm a bit torn on this to be honest - yes, we need better reasons to re-run olf dungeons than the relic, but at the same time I kinda want to be done with them by now aswell. I dont want to go back to Sastasha NM again and again - yes, I know, we have to, new players and all that. But whatever reason they give us, I feel it has to be something less "grindy" in a sense (if you understand what I mean).

Also: minimum ilvl runs cant do that - if I'm not terribly mistaken you can only queue for minimum ilvl as full group and unless you just want reasons to re-run those dungeons with your friends and not queue in with DF-pugs, it wont help (I'm also not sure if minimum ilvl increases the droprates for minions - somehow I thought it only increased it for songs and special primal-drops?).

My point basically is: Even if I understand that we'll have to re-run those dungeons for the sake of new people again, I can barely stand the thought right now (got a couple copperbells for mentor-roulette recently, I was soooo happy /sarcasm off) so I agree - they need 1) better rewards and 2) rewards that are grindy without feeling grindy - which sounds like a tough task and its excatly that, but just putting us through the old dungeons for our relic again and again cant be the solution...

[Core1019]

I agree there needs to be more incentive to run stuff synced. Trying to get a pug together to do savage 2nd coil synced is pretty much impossible (also, don't really want people joining that did coil normal unsynced tbh).

I'd imagine there will be much the same problem with alex savage (and normal for that matter) once SB hits. Personally i'd say simply ban unsyncing savage content, especially coil since it serves no purpose other than for pride in having done it. But i get the feeling this is a never ever since SE wants everything to be accessible to everyone.

[Belhi]

I agree there needs to be more incentive to run stuff synced. Trying to get a pug together to do savage 2nd coil synced is pretty much impossible (also, don't really want people joining that did coil normal unsynced tbh).

I'd imagine there will be much the same problem with alex savage (and normal for that matter) once SB hits. Personally i'd say simply ban unsyncing savage content, especially coil since it serves no purpose other than for pride in having done it. But i get the feeling this is a never ever since SE wants everything to be accessible to everyone.

Ban Unsyncing and the number of people interested in going back and doing would just dry up anyway.

The problem with adding rewards to old content is for people who have completed the content in the past it just becomes an easy farm. If you have Coils down pat then any rewards become extremely easy to obtain. More over most veteran players will chose to run that old content, particularly ilvl synced, with other veterans who already know the fights so there wouldn't be much benefit to people how haven't seen them before.

People just naturally become less interested in old content. I wouldn't touch Crystal Tower again if it wasn't an easy way to get Aether Oils. I have long since run that place to death.

[KisaiTenshi]

Ban Unsyncing and the number of people interested in going back and doing would just dry up anyway.

The problem with adding rewards to old content is for people who have completed the content in the past it just becomes an easy farm. If you have Coils down pat then any rewards become extremely easy to obtain. More over most veteran players will chose to run that old content, particularly ilvl synced, with other veterans who already know the fights so there wouldn't be much benefit to people how haven't seen them before.

People just naturally become less interested in old content. I wouldn't touch Crystal Tower again if it wasn't an easy way to get Aether Oils. I have long since run that place to death.

I'd love to run those old raids again, but literately, the minute V3.0 dropped the queues for those no longer exist. Chances are they'd become too much of a faceroll to run unsynced as well.

That's kinda the core problem we all keep running into, the content becomes too easy and boring. Other games try to incentivize old content by attaching rewards for doing things at certain difficulties, but in all fairness, that doesn't help things, it just encourages people to farm it until that item drops and then abandon it.


What needs to happen is disincentives for abandoning, kicking, disconnecting or exiting from content at certain phases. Right now people eat a 30 minute penalty, and that's preferable to spending 90 minutes doing a dungeon you don't want to do. This should be a debuff applied to all players that were in the party that prevents ALL World NPC's but one in the Hall of the Newbie called "Teamwork" from talking to you.

Under the hood, the game should require all the players that were in the party to select to dispute the debuff. Going offline does not tick down the debuff. If one person does not dispute it, then everyone keeps it. If everyone disputes it, but "the reason I think I was kicked/vote abandon" doesn't match, debuff remains. It's a simple way to check that players are not kicking for malicious reasons. Other games have similar functionality for "crimes" in the game. The reasons for debuff will list more specific things like:

"[Player Name], was [AFK|Disconnected|Idle|Chat spam|Cheating|Abandoned] at [Start|Regular Monsters|A Midboss|the End Boss] with (time remaining when kicked)"

That would solve most of the "I don't want to do this" type of actions, by creating a disincentive for abandoning. If something was legitimately too hard and abandoned it would be like:

"Party was unable to [Work together|cause enough damage|prevent taking damage] to defeat [Start|Regular Monsters|A Midboss| the End Boss] with (time remaining when abandoned)"

The way to tick the debuff down, if it won't be removed is to talk to the NPC and ask "How do I remove this?" And they will be presented with "Community Service (time remaining)" or "Jail Time (time remaining)"

Jail time, simply puts the player in a "Jail" instance where the debuff ticks down at 1:1, the player can also attempt to jail break by sneaking past the guards by hiding in shadows. If caught, time resets. If not caught, time continues to tick down outside the Jail. Occasionally drop a immediate-kill bomb in the player's cell, so the player can't simply AFK in the jail, they have to actually move around, time doesn't tick down while knocked out.

Community Service requires the player to be help take down FATE's that other players are participating in. Time spent in completed FATE's non-solo will tick down the debuff at 1:1

Players that are repeatedly kicked or abandon instances after any combat takes place will have the debuff's take longer to drop off. Dispute history drops off after 30 days. So all bad behavior is treated equally. Only one "disconnect" will be allowed within that time frame.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

snip

Wow... Congratulations. You have practically assured no one will ever touch DF again. I wouldn't even consider queuing into it with those draconian punishments in place. It's simply not worth the hassle, especially if I'm not even the one vote abandoning. While I agree the penalty should be harsher, this is taking it so far into the opposite extreme, people would simply run with friends almost exclusively. A simple solution is to change it so the 30 penalty isn't just on the first person. At least in 8 and 24 man content. Either way, it's not a pressing concern if we're honest.

[KisaiTenshi]

Wow... Congratulations. You have practically assured no one will ever touch DF again. I wouldn't even consider queuing into it with those draconian punishments in place. It's simply not worth the hassle, especially if I'm not even the one vote abandoning. While I agree the penalty should be harsher, this is taking it so far into the opposite extreme, people would simply run with friends almost exclusively. A simple solution is to change it so the 30 penalty isn't just on the first person. At least in 8 and 24 man content. Either way, it's not a pressing concern if we're honest.

I was only talking about the 8 and 24-man content. You know, the content that people are babies about not being perfect on. That's where the vast majority of "Abandon"'s come from, and it's because people don't actually want to teach/learn it, they just want to zerg rush it with PUG's

[Vidu]

The problem with adding rewards to old content is for people who have completed the content in the past it just becomes an easy farm. If you have Coils down pat then any rewards become extremely easy to obtain. More over most veteran players will chose to run that old content, particularly ilvl synced, with other veterans who already know the fights so there wouldn't be much benefit to people how haven't seen them before.

Specially with content like Coil or old EX-primal, aka difficult but optional content, I can only say: I've cleared and farmed this when it was relevant. And even if me and some friends recently went back there and tried t1-5 with miniumum ilvl and no echo as challenge, I actually dont want to go back there. I'm done with this content and I'd like that to be okay at some point. I dont want them to turn Coil into a new farm that makes me go back there yet again - yes, yes, I understand how MMOs work and the whole "but new people"-buisness and as far as normal, story-dungeons go I'm completly fine with that argument. As soon as it comes to optional content like EX-primals or even more so coil, I'm a lot more willing to say we dont need to add incentives to re-run this content. Its not content we need - or even should! - fill DF-queues for. Coil isnt (and never really was) DF-content, mechanics are often to complexe to just pick them up, if the group (or depending on the content even just one person) doesnt know what they're doing, its a wipe. Its static-group-content and if a new person wants to run it, their best bet is to look for like minded people anyways. From my experience enough vets are willing to help a friend (or a friend of a friend) to do content they wouldnt have done otherwise.

Making Coil/EX-primals attractive again by adding rewards will be a very shortterm-solution thats even unlikely to benefit to much new people. We really need to give up on the thought that queueing for Coil/EX-primals is (or ever was) a real option - the way to clear this content has always been forming groups yourself and thats still working, as far as I can tell. People in this game can be helpful, but just as usual: they're more likely to help a friend than a stranger...

Story-relevant content is a bit different though - it would be nice to get rewards and reasons to run old dungeons again outside of the roulettes, but as I already said: this constant getting-dragged-back-into-them is starting to get really tiresome. I farmed The Aery for the Niddhog-card (that was before his trial was released) and I never want to back in there to farm that dungeon for anything again. Whatever the reward could be... it has to be carefully balanced.
My personal suggestions would be an achievment tied to how many new people you've run through content with (as in: you get into a dungeon and two people are new. At the end of the dungeon you'll recieve two points towards that achievment; can be several tiers - 10, 50, 100, 500, 1.000, 3.000,... - with minions, titles and mounts) or an achievment thats a modified version of our instance-counter, with counting the dungeons you've run on a certain level (level 16-49; level 50; 51-59; 60; trials; raids...) and again, minions, titles, mounts, gear, whatever (only sychned dungeons would count, obviously). Just something extra that makes it worthwhile to run old dungeons again without adding stuff to one specific dungeon that gets farmed over and over again (seriously, that was/is the worst part on the relic: Being told to run excatly this dungeon, and in case of the old ARR-one being able to be stuck with running AV for a week). That way people could just chose what dungeon they're willing to do again.
I just really dont want to be dragged back into specific instances again... I'm so, so done with most of them...

[Masekase_Hurricane]

Why don't they just add rare and common crafting mats to the mobs. They could also make all ARR dungeons/HW reward company seals too. This way the dungeons/raids would have a constant lifespan. Putting actual gear rewards is pointless as once they have it they won't run it again.

[Core1019]

snip

holy shit, talk about a party pooper. Got kicked one too many times lately?

Sometimes people legitimately have to leave in the middle of a duty, and I seriously doubt 80% of the player base could accurately tell you why they were failing at a certain point in an instance. I think the current penalty system is fine.

We do need more incentives to run older content properly though. A savage/ex roulette would be a good start, if it only put you in duties you'd already cleared with people who haven't. Obviously this would be disasterous most of the time, so make the rewards worth it, say 350-400 tomes (assuming 450 weekly cap) and only queueable solo.

The other main incentive I could see working would be some situational gear, for example a weapon that does ice damage (higher damage vs ifrit/scorpion boss in sohm al hard etc), but that would mean opening up horizontal progression which yoship seems to have an allergy to.