Will Healers Still be Forced to DPS in 4.0 Due to Lax Content?

[Aramina]

As much as I'm generally a critic of PotD, in odd comps or at high floors at least, this is a concept really worth enjoying and one I'd love to see entered into more of the dungeon experience. Heck, it's probably the first thing in XIV to actually feel like a (traditional/archetypal) dungeon experience. The rest, while enjoyable when making the most of the paradigm, are pedal-powered roller coasters.

To piggyback you guys a bit: I, too, am not advocating a simple "shit hits harder" deal. I want to have to think about what I am casting, when I am casting, and on whom I am casting it.

As to whether or not it would be better or not for sub numbers? Clearly I can't answer that, none of us can, but I have always been of the mind that it is better to (potentially) overtune and have to come down a notch rather than not try at all.

Also: Gear acts as a natural nerf to content. For story dungeons low (no) difficulty is fine... but there could be actual expert dungeons (seperate from MSQ) that maybe not everyone is intended to do on day 1. Maybe they need to get some more gear to cover for any lack in skill.

[Lesan]

My opinion is: As long as ANY DPS Job is taking ANY non Roomwide AoE for ANY reason other than latency, they have not even remotely the right to utter even ONE peep if the Healer is only casting heal spells. Even more so in Stormblood, where Gap Closers (Melee) and restoration of mobility seems to be a thing.

When in doubt, give 'DPS Buster' abilities to boss enemies that are aimed at people with the DPS Role, and deal something like 5 to 50 times the amount of HP one can potentially stack. There is a reason why SSS requires inflated output on Damage classes - and that is to train them to do well enough ON THEIR OWN so that they then, with party buffs, have spare time to dodge stuff and do mechanics. DPS Greed should be punished with non avoidable deaths left, right and center.

[LegoTechnic]

They tried the idea of hard-hitting mobs and a high healing requirement with Pharos Sirius, as the instance was incredibly punishing for groups lacking primal weapons and a decent amount of darklight gear. While there were other things difficult about the instance, such as Siren's multitude of new and original debuffs to learn for the first time, it was the high mob damage that led the community into complaining up a storm until the instance was nerfed and toned down. Seriously, people would abandon immediately if they got it in roulette, and for DPS queues this was an ultimate frustration.

They will likely never go back to such a design because randos will cry, and even if we like to think the community has grown in experience since then, there will always be subscribed players of various skill levels, some of which may not be very high, and S-E intends to cater to all. It's the lesson they've been learning, which is why story-scenes are linked to Alexander Normal rather than gating an awesome Louisoux cutscene behind a difficult second coil raid encounter that only a tiny percentage of the population saw in-game prior to Heavensward. Cater to the masses, and if that means it's easy in general for the skilled, then they just need to seek out their challenges in the content designed for them (extreme primals and savage raids).

It's not an ideal system, but one that approaches the greatest number of people.

[Lesan]

Which means again, that a dps that eats avoidable AoE should get not a single heal. If the group disbands, so be it.

[Aramina]

Which means again, that a dps that eats avoidable AoE should get not a single heal. If the group disbands, so be it.

Not sure how that is at all relevant to the conversation.

That said, "If you play badly then I will play badly too!" isn't a good look. Sorry.

[Lesan]

Not sure how that is at all relevant to the conversation.

That said, "If you play badly then I will play badly too!" isn't a good look. Sorry.

It is more meant as a 'They have not a shred of a right to demand the Healer to dodge, heal AND dps, when they only focus on damage and ignore the dodging, making the healer have to heal more to compensate.'

Because by the 'You only need to heal after big attacks!!!111' logic, any heal used on a non tank to refill after a non roomwide aoe is wasted potential DPS.

[LegoTechnic]

Which means again, that a dps that eats avoidable AoE should get not a single heal. If the group disbands, so be it.

Wasting your own time isn't any more conducive though. Additionally there are two schools of thought here, because sometimes a DPS knows they will not die to an AoE and so they eat it to maximize DPS uptime. This is almost always an annoyance for healers because they invariably end up reacting to it, but there's a solid logic behind it. Alternatively they could have made a mistake, or just be daft. It's not always easy to tell without talking to them first.

Regardless you're in whatever duty to achieve your goal, and your time is better spent getting your rewards rather than sulking or counter-trolling on principle, unless those are your actual goals instead. Work with the team you have to get it done, or abandon and find a different group if they're just too incompatible with you; whatever you decide make sure you're doing what you can to have the most fun during your video game time, though if you get enjoyment from being smug and purposefully being a poor player then don't be surprised if people abandon party and waste your time in response.

[Aramina]

It is more meant as a 'They have not a shred of a right to demand the Healer to dodge, heal AND dps, when they only focus on damage and ignore the dodging, making the healer have to heal more to compensate.'

Because by the 'You only need to heal after big attacks!!!111' logic, any heal used on a non tank to refill after a non roomwide aoe is wasted potential DPS.

Fair enough.

[Cynfael]

Wasting your own time isn't any more conducive though. Additionally there are two schools of thought here, because sometimes a DPS knows they will not die to an AoE and so they eat it to maximize DPS uptime. This is almost always an annoyance for healers because they invariably end up reacting to it, but there's a solid logic behind it. Alternatively they could have made a mistake, or just be daft. It's not always easy to tell without talking to them first.

Regardless you're in whatever duty to achieve your goal, and your time is better spent getting your rewards rather than sulking or counter-trolling on principle, unless those are your actual goals instead. Work with the team you have to get it done, or abandon and find a different group if they're just too incompatible with you; whatever you decide make sure you're doing what you can to have the most fun during your video game time, though if you get enjoyment from being smug and purposefully being a poor player then don't be surprised if people abandon party and waste your time in response.

I know, right; god forbid we admit that the question of action priority (in this case healing vs. attacking) is more accurately represented by a flow chart than it is by a rigid set of expectations or rules.

The people who complain about not having enough healing to do and being "forced" to DPS would probably be among the first to complain about being turned into a straight-up healbot.

Can the healing/support game in FFXIV be improved? Sure, I will agree that there is room to make it more interesting without crossing the line into healbot territory. On the other hand, I'm far from convinced that the playstyle we have now with interwoven healing and DPS is so terrible.

[Lesan]

The thing is, I WANT to DPS. And very often, its the actual DPS Role players that ruin that plan by only focusing on the 'Damage' part, which is fine - as long as they can cover 100% of damage taken by avoidable AoE. If they choose to focus on Damage only, I am free to focus on Healing, more and more, to the point of only renewing my dots on the boss. Because right now, the 5 Seconds it takes to be able to detoggle Cleric Stance means that some parser greedy DPS has eaten the current set of avoidable AoE, and will get slain by the next. And this will most likely not improve either....