About Esuna, Exalted Detriment and Leeches change

[Gemina]

It makes sense as a role ability, but so does cure and raise. So color me baffled.

I got a VERY wrong impression on the devs intentions of making things simpler with the cross class system. I thought the only skills going in the role category were abilities a player would have to level another class for since it was mandatory: Protect, eye4eye, swiftcast, provoke, etc. I was shocked when I saw them take a WHM specific ability and toss it in there, especially when the other two healers already have their own innate ability to increase their healing potency. I find this to be a very dumb decision on the part of the devs.

The same applies to a healer's ability to remove a detrimental effect. Not only does it unnecessarily consolidate a skill that didn't need it, we also lose those specific animations for the spells. Here's an idea: Any mandatory skill for a role, just give it to us. Don't force us to choose it, or do something ridiculous like make us switch ones out for others during an instance. This does not make things simpler. In fact, just the opposite.

I get that they want to reduce skill bloat, but it defeats the purpose when you toss both mandatory role skills AND job specific abilities in the list of slot choices. WTF SE?? Seriously.

[Roxas_Andrade]

I thought the only skills going in the role category were abilities a player would have to level another class for since it was mandatory: Protect, eye4eye, swiftcast, provoke, etc.

When I saw that the cross class would be changed, I thought we would have acces to all of the skills, without need to choose among them... Would make much more sense...

[MsTanya]

This was the one role skill that made no sense to me. Who at squeenix was like lets take an ability all healers have already, remove it, and force them to waste a slot to re equip it. At least the other abilities weren't inherent on all 3 healers so everyone kinda got something out of the system like a better version of shroud for whm, traited eye for an eye for whm/ast, a solo divine seal for sch, etc. That esuna change though, I really hope they rethink that.

[Lemuria]

the other abilities weren't inherent on all 3 healers so everyone kinda got something out of the system like a better version of shroud for whm

I'm not entirely convinced WHM did get a 'better version of shroud'. All of the gasps and gapes are focused solely on the MP regeneration side of things, ignoring the fact that Shroud of Saints had a secondary benefit, that of halving any and all enmity you currently hold.

No doubt someone will argue that healers shouldn't be pulling aggro anyway and blah blah, but it can happen to even the best parties and Shroud can turn a bad situation around in an instant. That we're also now forced to use one of our extra slots for its replacement is an added slap in the face. Honestly, it kind of feels like SE gutted white mage on this one, just to share pieces of us out to everyone else.

[Aramina]

I'm not entirely convinced WHM did get a 'better version of shroud'. All of the gasps and gapes are focused solely on the MP regeneration side of things, ignoring the fact that Shroud of Saints had a secondary benefit, that of halving any and all enmity you currently hold.

Doesn't the new one do that as well? Going back to watch video.

edit: Yep, it does.

[Lemuria]

Doesn't the new one do that as well?

I retract that part of my argument then. I still maintain that having it as a class skill is better so as not to use up role slots for MP regeneration (something which we all had a version of anyway, so what the heck?).

you need to work as an actual team instead of two people who are both doing exact same things at exact same times. That's an extremely inefficient way to heal anything.

So is inflexibility. There's a difference between not using Esuna and not actually needing it. If the other WHM goes down for some reason and someone needs to take over their duties temporarily, that includes being able to remove debuffs.

It's folly to think it's any kind of benefit to lose a strong skill just for the sake of 'streamlining' our skill set.

[Taika]

So is inflexibility. There's a difference between not using Esuna and not actually needing it. If the other WHM goes down for some reason and someone needs to take over their duties temporarily, that includes being able to remove debuffs.

It's folly to think it's any kind of benefit to lose a strong skill just for the sake of 'streamlining' our skill set.

In many cases though, if one healer (the Esuna healer in this case) goes down, the fight is already lost. Well, maybe that hasn't been true in Creator, and of course we can't know what it will be like in SB. I'm not really arguing that this should be how it's done in raids, I'm more just thinking out loud. Like I said in my first post in this thread, I like the idea of healers and healer teams (as well as others) having to plan their role skill setup based on the fight they're about to do. I don't argue that this upcoming system is good implementation for it. I guess I'm reserving judgment until I've seen the fights.

This whole system seems like it only makes sense for 8 person statics, while being a detriment to all other players. And it isn't even giving a benefit to those static players, it just doesn't hinder them.

I agree with what Aramina said earlier: it's not likely to be a detriment outside static content, since what you use outside static content probably won't have an significant effect on anything (unfortunately)... It might benefit static group healers, but it also might not.