About Esuna, Exalted Detriment and Leeches change

[Lunali]

In theory, I like the idea of picking different role skills depending on the fight (if you need Esuna or not etc.) and setup (can have 1 healer take Protect and the other Esuna etc.). Let's see how this will work in practice.

In any fight where Esuna is needed, both healers should have it.

[Roxas_Andrade]

What's next? Raise becoming a cross role skill as well?

Don't say it again, or it might become true...

But nobody mentioned in this thread that SCH has a party-wide esuna... At least sch won't need to cross class it that bad...
SCH also have a healing bonus, while both WHM ans AST are losing theirs...

[Powe]

Don't say it again, or it might become true...

But nobody mentioned in this thread that SCH has a party-wide esuna... At least sch won't need to cross class it that bad...
SCH also have a healing bonus, while both WHM ans AST are losing theirs...

But that AOE esuna is on a 90 second cool down, >.> some fights require cleanses multiple times within 90 seconds

[OcieKo]

Don't say it again, or it might become true...

But nobody mentioned in this thread that SCH has a party-wide esuna... At least sch won't need to cross class it that bad...
SCH also have a healing bonus, while both WHM ans AST are losing theirs...

SCHs also lose a lot of spot healing with theirs by merit of losing the faerie to use their healing buff. TBH even if SCH lost Dissipation they wouldve won that round.

Snip.

Actually AST didn't have access to Virus/Eye for an Eye at all before. CNJ/THM was it so pretty much, CS/Prot/Swift/Stoneskin then Surecast or Blizzard 2 on opinion/level... Eithervway you took it to have 5/5 not cause you needed either.

[LegoTechnic]

Actually AST didn't have access to Virus/Eye for an Eye at all before. CNJ/THM was it so pretty much, CS/Prot/Swift/Stoneskin then Surecast or Blizzard 2 on opinion/level... Eithervway you took it to have 5/5 not cause you needed either.

AST had Disable, which was just their variation on Virus. Don't forget about it! ...Well, ok, it's gone in SB, so I guess we can forget about it. >_>;

Also that party-wide Esuna that was mentioned is on a 60 seconds cooldown. You cannot rely on it to always be available when needed, especially if you prefer to have Selene on Sic for Fey Wind spamming.

[OcieKo]

AST had Disable, which was just their variation on Virus. Don't forget about it! ...Well, ok, it's gone in SB, so I guess we can forget about it. >_>;

Also that party-wide Esuna that was mentioned is on a 60 seconds cooldown. You cannot rely on it to always be available when needed, especially if you prefer to have Selene on Sic for Fey Wind spamming.

Party wide Esuna is on Selene, shares CD with Eos + Healing recieved buff. Always forget about disable... Pretty much only use it for tank busters and raid wide AoE, i think it was given to tanks, which is a better spot for it.

Every class already had Esuna analogues. WHM and AST already had their Lucid Dreaming analogues (and SCH has, and retains, MP regain on Aetherflow & Energy Drain). Protect is so critical it might as well be baked into every healer's kit anyway.

Cross role actions should be stuff that expands your options, but won't break your run if you don't have them like not having those skills will if you go in blind. Things like Rescue, Surecast, and new Cleric Stance are all perfect examples.

Removing critical skills like Esuna to cross role adds pointless burden of knowledge (on top of the burden of knowledge for which debuffs in particular are cleansable).

Keep in mind Aetherflows MP recovery was cut in half last time we saw it. I also get a nudging suspicion that they are working towards elimination of classes in general. And there is a precendent for similar things having been done before. EQ2 did it at one point to knock out the first 3 stages of character identity pretty far unto its life cycle, wanna say 2 expansions in or so that hit. Also pretty sure there was some minor comment in one of Yoshi's recent interviews that mention "while still gaving classes" if anyone remembers seeing it, link if you would. Either way the going in blind/PUG setup for us is pretty simple. Protect/Esuna/Swiftcast/Eye for an Eye/Lucid Dreaming, after that its a matter of ditching what you dont need.

[Taika]

In any fight where Esuna is needed, both healers should have it.

Why though? In any raid fight there's been a need for Esuna (like Coil 10(?) and A3S), it's always been responsibility of 1 healer to use it, at least in my groups.

[Ootarion]

Why though? In any raid fight there's been a need for Esuna (like Coil 10(?) and A3S), it's always been responsibility of 1 healer to use it, at least in my groups.

Ummmm and if the ONE HEALER that has Esuna dies? But the other healer is still alive, but has no Esuna, what if in the time it takes that healer to revive the other healer, multiple people die from a DoT or other crippling Debuff? Hmm? Well? Unless they plan to remove the Animation/Time Delay of the Revival process, which adds an extra 5 or so seconds after you accept the revive, people....can....die.

[Taika]

Ummmm and if the ONE HEALER that has Esuna dies? But the other healer is still alive, but has no Esuna, what if in the time it takes that healer to revive the other healer, multiple people die from a DoT or other crippling Debuff? Hmm? Well? Unless they plan to remove the Animation/Time Delay of the Revival process, which adds an extra 5 or so seconds after you accept the revive, people....can....die.

You can't really plan your raid strategies for failure, you make the most optimal plan and stick with it. It's like saying "we need to have a SMN in the group, otherwise what if both healers die..." In raids, if one healer dies, it's generally game over in the first place (in progression phase before overgearing, I mean).

I used Coil 10 and A3S as my examples (those are so far the only raid fights I remember which required Esuna). If the Esuna healer would have died in either, there really wouldn't have been a point in the other having the spell available (well at least in A3S, not sure how well I remember Coil 10 ).

[Ootarion]

You can't really plan your raid strategies for failure, you make the most optimal plan and stick with it. It's like saying "we need to have a SMN in the group, otherwise what if both healers die..." In raids, if one healer dies, it's generally game over in the first place (in progression phase before overgearing, I mean).

I used Coil 10 and A3S as my examples (those are so far the only raid fights I remember which required Esuna). If the Esuna healer would have died in either, there really wouldn't have been a point in the other having the spell available (well at least in A3S, not sure how well I remember Coil 10 ).

You cannot, and should not, expect one healer to be the only one using their MP to remove debuffs, there is a reason to have multiple healers, and not just for HEALING, but for sharing the burden of EVERYTHING, you're putting to much on one healer by asking them to be the only one both healing AND removing debuffs. Im not saying this because I couldnt do that, cause I could, Im saying this cause that would be unfair. That would be like asking ONE healer to be dedicated revival, which Raise, Ascend and Resurrection all cost ALOT OF MP! Furthermore you cannot and SHOULD NOT expect everyone you roll with to always be on their A game and avoid all the stuff that can be avoided, people will make mistakes, and it is for this reason that it is CRUCIAL to have redundancy, IE having two healers with Debuff Removers, and both healers reviving as needed, it's again, called sharing the burden, dont be selfish.