PLD + DRK synergy; WAR falling behind?

[Atreides]

The utility that matters is in fact DPS buffs.... Sure you can call other things utility too but thats not really what matters for progressing, people want more damage to skip through phases and boost other DPS, this is why MNK was not popular in heavensward. He did not contribute to the damage as much as Dragoon and Ninja did. Mantra did not help either because again... this is not the kind of utility raiders look for.

The Utility Warrior brought in heavensward was the slashing resist debuff which helped the co-tank and Ninja aswell so he could use his higher potency skills instead of applying the debuff with Dancing Edge.
Also Path with the 10% less damage from the target durring Progress and the fact that Warrior themselves contributed alot of DPS to the group.

So as for now SE has taken everything from us that made us desirable, while I don't think this is so bad because let's be honest... throughout Heavensward we were irreplacable.

Then again I am kind of pissed about "Shake it off" being a high lvl Warrior skill... It should at last be an AoE to remove debuffs from everyone around you. Then it would deserve the spot but as it is now it's just insulting.

They buffed PLD which is a good thing BUT they went overboard at last from the informations we have right now from the developer build. I firmly believe that they have changed some things by now.

[Hierro]

If you don't bring a SAM or NIN

Stopped reading right there. I want you to think long and hard about the likelyhood where there WON'T be a samurai, let alone a ninja. Sounds silly, right? I thought so too.

[Galactimus]

Dark Knight and Warrior can now both cover that. Paladin will actually be the one far behind the others when it comes to picking up distant adds.

Completely disagree. Clemency is one of the greatest add picker-uppers in the game. One cast on yourself and every mob in the ENTIRE arena comes flocking to you. It's like a Flash with a radius of 100y (for any mob that's currently in battle.) Not only that but it generates aggro on mobs that can't be targeted yet.

[aqskerorokero]

I would prefer fights when tank swap is not required but heavy damage to be pld solo tank, and drk/war pair if it does require tanks swap

[Raim]

Why would you pick WAR if PLD is seeming to do more damage and have better raid and mitigation to use for the MT? They seem like the perfect OT now, and a good MT. WAR brings nothing to the table assuming your group has a SAM or NIN and they will. I mean maybe on farm you'll see other comps like DRK/WAR or PLD/WAR but their marginal personal DPS increase over Paladin, if that even exists now doesn't warrant them a spot.

[Fernosaur]

In 3.x, Cover was useless and everyone wanted a gap closer. In 4.x, gap closers are useless and everyone wants Cover. I'm trying to guess what 5.x's meta ability will be.

I'm dying!!! This is gonna be my signature now.

[konpachizaraki]

Why would you pick WAR if PLD is seeming to do more damage and have better raid and mitigation to use for the MT? They seem like the perfect OT now, and a good MT. WAR brings nothing to the table assuming your group has a SAM or NIN and they will. I mean maybe on farm you'll see other comps like DRK/WAR or PLD/WAR but their marginal personal DPS increase over Paladin, if that even exists now doesn't warrant them a spot.

exactly what i was thinking, dual PLD will be a thing more than PLD+ 1 of the 2 inferior tanks

[Ultimatecalibur]

Nitpicking what your definition of utility matters little. Statics will min max which tanks bring the most that allows less healing/more damage overall to finish fights faster. Nothing more nothing less. Dark/paladin is looking to be the pairing at first glance but we cannot say until we are actually in the fights.

Picking this nit is actually very important. People are confusing dps synergy with utility. DpS synergy is how much you can improve other party members ability to do dps. Utility is how many tools you have that can be used to deal with a variety of mechanics. The best dps synergy will get you nowhere if you are lacking the utility tools to handle a mechanic.


A lot of players are missing that the tank rebalance in SB is making it so that all 3 tank combinations (Drk+Pld, Pld+Drk and War+Pld) will all have some access to all tank utility tools even if each composition has different amounts of access to those tools.

The utility that matters is in fact DPS buffs.... Sure you can call other things utility too but thats not really what matters for progressing, people want more damage to skip through phases and boost other DPS, this is why MNK was not popular in heavensward. He did not contribute to the damage as much as Dragoon and Ninja did. Mantra did not help either because again... this is not the kind of utility raiders look for.

False. Raiders first need all the utility tools necessary to handle all mechanics in a fight. DpS does no good if the boss is applying a non-cleansable paralysis with an attack that can only be interrupted with silence. DpS does no good when you need to position adds and keep them there so that they can be petrified to block line of site for a mechanic. DpS doesn't help when a tank needs to eat multiple knockback mines quickly to avoid wiping the party. Having all the tools needed to handle mechanics comes first. Figuring out the job composition with the highest dps that covers all those tools comes afterwards.

The monk's flaw in HW was redundant (-10% Int was covered by Drk, Silence was covered by Pld, Brd, Mch and Nin, pretty much everyone had one or more stuns) and useless (One-ilm punch's buff stripping wasn't useful enough to be noticed in any PvE fight) utilities and not enough dps to make up for lack of synergy with all other jobs.

The Utility Warrior brought in heavensward was the slashing resist debuff which helped the co-tank and Ninja aswell so he could use his higher potency skills instead of applying the debuff with Dancing Edge.

The slashing resist debuff is synergy not utility.

Also Path with the 10% less damage from the target durring Progress and the fact that Warrior themselves contributed alot of DPS to the group.

Storm's Path was the only utility Warrior really brought in HW (they also had a harpoon in Holmgang but that was not really used). It was strong

So as for now SE has taken everything from us that made us desirable, while I don't think this is so bad because let's be honest... throughout Heavensward we were irreplacable.

No, Warriors were replaceable. What you were was optimal due to the dps focused meta. Nothing a Warrior could do couldn't also be done by a Dark Knight or Paladin with Ninja support.

Then again I am kind of pissed about "Shake it off" being a high lvl Warrior skill... It should at last be an AoE to remove debuffs from everyone around you. Then it would deserve the spot but as it is now it's just insulting.

You only feel insulted because you are expecting higher level abilities to be inherently be better than lower level ones. HW gave you a lot of "crazy good" abilities during HW. Shake It Off is a solid ability and you are only disappointed with it because you are comparing it to Requiescat and Bloodspiller.

[Phoenicia]

Just pointing out 1 thing:

WAR mitigates more damage than PLD, even if PLD can block magic damage. Reason: WAR has way more CDs to stack up. Been this way since ARR. Just convert their CDs to effective health and compare them. And now WAR gets rampart on top of their already superior arsenal. The only time PLD mitigates more damage than WAR is during Hallowed Ground, which is 10 seconds every 7 minutes, and when split over the course of a fight is still not enough to make up the difference between WAR and PLD.

Reason why WAR doesn't play defensively: It sacrifices too much damage to obtain said mitigation. One example: Inner Beast vs Fell Cleave. Also going from +5% in Deliverance to -25% in Defiance (biggest dip between 3 tanks). Also tank swaps make any difference in mitigation obsolete anyways. The difference between PLD and WAR mitigation is within 5~7% over a fight anyways.

And before you give me crap about shield block and shield oath, reducing damage isn't the only way to "mitigate" damage.

Assuming PLD will do 30% more DPS or so than the two other tanks is just napkin math really on numbers that Yoshi-P clearly stated are no where near final. Not to mention most of the tooltips were mistranslated and/or had absolutely wrong potency values (Fester being 200 potency but doing 50% more damage than Painflare's 200 potency is one example). I wouldn't jump the gun until the 16th of June.

PLD + DRK synergy is just something I don't get. DRK will get 1 shield move.. ONE... And it's basically a single target Divine Veil.. So bleh. Anything else that comes close to utility DRK has is just cross-role ability which is available to all three tanks. And based on the same napkin math that everyone is getting a kneejerk reaction to, DRK will be the lowest DPS tank.

As I said, I wouldn't fuss about it until the 16th of June comes out.

~Phoenicia~

[konpachizaraki]

You only feel insulted because you are expecting higher level abilities to be inherently be better than lower level ones. HW gave you a lot of "crazy good" abilities during HW. Shake It Off is a solid ability and you are only disappointed with it because you are comparing it to Requiescat and Bloodspiller.

no shake it off is legit bad using or not using it will not change the warrior's life, it could've been a bit more useful if berserk wasn't changed and it will never have a moment when you can use that to save your life or be useful in a big way for that matter