Will Healers Still be Forced to DPS in 4.0 Due to Lax Content?

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

My focus is your shifting of blame towards the DPS, who already take fair criticism for bad play.

That's exactly her point, though. Sub-par dps not only isn't criticized, it's actively enforced and allowed by the healer dps community, despite the fact a sub-par dps that can't afford even 1k dps is contributing less to the fight than a heal only healer.

[Cyrocco]

I think it's really just coming down to healers have a superiority complex and thinking they deserve all the extra downtime because they decided to grace the common folk with their presence.

[Cynfael]

That's exactly her point, though. Sub-par dps not only isn't criticized, it's actively enforced and allowed by the healer dps community, despite the fact a sub-par dps that can't afford even 1k dps is contributing less to the fight than a heal only healer.

If anyone actually needs an explanation as to why this statement is all kinds of wrong, feel free to raise your hand. Otherwise let's move on.

[Rufalus]

Nobody is being forced or at least I've never been. The expectation is just that every party member should do something. Party at max HP doesn't mean take a break while all the other party members are still engaging. Every role should be equal in needing to press buttons until the duty is complete.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

That's exactly her point, though. Sub-par dps not only isn't criticized, it's actively enforced and allowed by the healer dps community, despite the fact a sub-par dps that can't afford even 1k dps is contributing less to the fight than a heal only healer.

If you honestly believe DPS and tanks aren't criticised for lackluster damage... I don't know where to even begin. The Tales of the Duty Finder is littered with people mocking bad DPS players. Furthermore, let's stop the hyperbole. A DPS who can't reach 1k in Solm Al or Balesar's Wall isn't sub-par, they are garbage and plenty would kick them. Regardless, why is the response to bad players "I'll be a bad too!" That's the equivalent of saying, "everyone else go a D, so I won't bother striving for better." When I go into any content, I want to play my role efficiently. On tank and healers, that involves switching stances wherever applicable and on DPS it involves aoes and executing a proper rotation.

[Kaania]

The one thing I would say about all this is all different types of players play the game. There are everything from hardcore raiders, to super casual plays one hour a week people. My opinion is if someone wants to play one way who's to stop them. Just because someone doesn't feel comfortable dpsing as a healer, or just wants to live the class fantasy of being a healer, they should be able to enjoy the game. If you are really bothered by healers not dpsing, or vice versa, then join as a group. The LFG tool in every game I have ever played has been a crap shoot. I don't think anyone should be kicked or even harassed for playing how they want to play. If the healer is healing and you are getting through, then just let it go. Or as I said, find a group that you know is what you want, and just go with them.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

Snip

Healers: Harassed, insulted, and kicked out of parties for dealing less than 3k dps.

Dps/Tanks: Occasionally whined about on a forum the majority don't visit.

One of these seems drastically different from the other. I wonder why?

[Cyrocco]

Healers: Harassed, insulted, and kicked out of parties for dealing less than 3k dps.

Dps/Tanks: Occasionally whined about on a forum the majority don't visit.

One of these seems drastically different from the other. I wonder why?

Healers: AFK half the time

Dps/Tanks: At least they can't alt-tab out to switch soundtracks mid-raid.

Edit: and grab a sandwich, and say hi to the neighbor, and and do a little grocery shopping, and raise a child, all stuff I could do mid-raid with how ezpz regens are. So yeah. But you guys just looooove being the worse healers.

[Elamys]

I have many times seen healers kicked for refusing to DPS during downtime in non-intense content, in the same way a slow or ineffective tank may be kicked (generally according to average replacement time when people start getting annoyed).

Fun fact: The "I only heal" healers there, too, tend to be worse at healing, regardless of spending no globals on any other task, save for when there's enough damage and few enough mechanics to allow their eyes to remain fixed to their heal grids.

You're playing with a very small group of people then because in 12 years of PUGs I have never seen a healer get kicked for not DPSing, and my main is shadow priest first, so it's not because I'm the healer all the time. I have also never been in a raid group where I was expected to DPS unless some rare situation called for it, like, as mentioned, pushing an add. Healers in WoW almost always have something to do that better contributes to their healing.

If they are damaging, it's because the damage has a mechanic tied to it that affects their healing. For example, in Warlords on Holy priest, when I was low on mana (because they for some reason decided to nerf spirit and then remove all active mana regen abilities...) I could spam Smite, which was mana neutral, to fish for Surge of Light procs while waiting on my mana to regen. That's not DPS for the sake of making things faster. That's DPS because I need healing from it.

I don't play WoW anymore since Legion launch, my friend tells me that only now is there a mentality beginning to emerge that healers should do some DPS, because DPS abilities on healers cost pretty much no mana now.

To say that there is no game where healers just heal, and then point to the biggest MMO in history as requiring healers to DPS when it doesn't, is laughable. Very few damaging attacks that FFXIV healers have contributes something to their healing, and it's pretty much limited to Assize and Energy Drain, restoring MP. The reason for this is because heals in WoW are much weaker. In XIV I can top up a bar in two-three casts. In WoW, I cannot. I HAVE to heal way more. It is much more demanding on my time. There's almost always something I can do that is better contributed to my healing. Mana cost has historically prohibited healers from DPSing anywhere close to the level we do in XIV, and now what prohibits it is the sheer amount of time healing. There are also no pet healers like Scholar, so we don't have healers that just AFK the whole time. I see plenty of healers who do damage, but not because they were told to lol. It's very rare to find any appreciable amount of downtime to do so in serious content.

As far as how this relates to XIV? I like to DPS as a healer, I feel I'm rather aggressive about it in comparison to average, but it's mostly because I don't like having nothing to do. I DPS in WoW for the same reason when I can. If I see a healer not DPSing I usually won't say anything unless it's a scholar or we've wiped a few times. I'd rather have my healer be healing than to get locked to Cleric because they're not comfortable with it or whatever.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Healers: Harassed, insulted, and kicked out of parties for dealing less than 3k dps.

Dps/Tanks: Occasionally whined about on a forum the majority don't visit.

One of these seems drastically different from the other. I wonder why?

I see you went maximum hyperbole instead. Shooting for the high ground!

Probably because it's a blatant lie? Not to mention, a complete contradiction. If only the forums whine about healer DPS, how is it they can be "harassed and insulted?" Either way, you are either being willfully obtuse or are incredibly naive to believe only healers get called out. Check out some of the more aggressive raid streams or discord servers. They are not shy on opinions or mockery towards anyone who plays poorly. In fact, it's far more often DPS who are the butt of jokes. This idea that poor healers are just unfairly picked on while no one ever calls out the DPS is laughable.