Yoshi P to Mr.Happy "Heal DPS is not mandatory and no expectation for Healer to DPS!"

[Seoulstar]

snip

I figured that out after the other person just went to insulting instead of simply stating it was an exaggeration. I understand what you are saying, but the way many are doing it here isn't going to make someone dps while healing. Insulting people isn't really a great way to get a point across, nor is generalizing them. Many factors can go into why that healer isn't dpsing. But many just jump to the "They are lazy" quote. Maybe they are not comfortable at the moment. That's how I was before I started doing it. I was uncomfortable, I was afraid. But people helped me ease my way into it. Fast forward to now and I'm stance dancing and enjoying it. I do offer the option of dpsing to other healers and if they want, I tell them exactly what I was told when I was starting.

Anyways, thanks for being civilized and not insulting. It actually makes the topic feel more like a discussion and not a all out war.

[Misutoraru]

Insulting people isn't really a great way to get a point across, nor is generalizing them. Many factors can go into why that healer isn't dpsing. But many just jump to the "They are lazy" quote. Maybe they are not comfortable at the moment. That's how I was before I started doing it. I was uncomfortable, I was afraid. But people helped me ease my way into it. Fast forward to now and I'm stance dancing and enjoying it. I do offer the option of dpsing to other healers and if they want, I tell them exactly what I was told when I was starting.

if everyone in forum so rational like your comment
these kind of thread will never fill up the first page of the forum
and the two side would probably never ran into a war like what we have now

[Fyce]

[...]

Most of us are actually okay with bad/new players, on the only condition that they seek to improve themselves.

The reason why people start become aggressive comes from the "pure healers" who defend their view with arguments such as "it's not my role, so I won't do it". It means that these players are actually aware of the possibility, and deliberatly choose not to.
Since it's disrespectful to the other players, people on the forums will voice their anger at these type of entitled and selfish behaviors, especially since these healers absolutly don't want to make any kind of compromise, or ignore any argument or proof thrown their way.

In short terms, they made the deliberate choice to be a burden on their team while refusing any kind of self improvement, and a lot of people are not okay with that.

So, as I said, when you start hitting a brick wall over and over again, you'll probably start to lose your temper too.
That's where the over saturation of sarcasm, exageration and even insults come from.

[Seoulstar]

..

Interesting point..I didn't look at it that way.

Edit: But also, I do hope that eventually have more patience. I know things can be frustrating, but keep a cool head can make things better I believe.

[Misutoraru]

In short terms, they made the deliberate choice to be a burden on their team while refusing any kind of self improvement, and a lot of people are not okay with that.

So, as I said, when you start hitting a brick wall over and over again, you'll probably start to lose your temper too.
That's where the over saturation of sarcasm, exageration and even insults come from.

sorry to get into the talk between you two but i really want to say

this is not good for anyone and it is also the reason i feel so dislike about the "Should" mentality

I leave the game at 2.0 return at 3.0, and leave at 3.1 return at 3.5, and the first thing i saw when i return was the sarcasm and exaggeration

I welcome healer do dmg in dungeon when he/she feel safe to do, but all these sarcasm and exaggeration give me a really bad impression and making me start feeling empathy for healer

I mean encouraging new healer to try is a nice thing, but if we all do it the right way by patience teaching, giving advice, wouldn't it be more efficient and welcoming

[KisaiTenshi]

As expected, everything turned out the way I predicted



The trolls did exactly what I expected them to do, watch little or nothing of the video, and make belligerent quips about me being bad at the game.

Entire context for everything below.

None of you had enough time to watch it. So please, I posted it knowing full well the trolls would use it as ammo, but felt that nobody had posted any video of people having fun.

This is how I play the game:
https://youtu.be/QhWxJ_glQoY

Pretty much every "healer must DPS" is going to look at that and go "you suck", yet:

- Content was cleared
- Content was not spoiled
- I was not overgeared for the content
- Bard DPS was writing puns at every opportunity (and the entire reason the chat had to be blocked at all)
- Tank was responding to the puns with groans and comments similar to that
- Bard has all their combat classes at 60, and appears to main Bard
- Tank has all their combat classes at 60, and appears to main Scholar
- Dragoon is playing their only level 60 DPS class
- Bard and Tank clearly know each other and are on the same FC.

- I healed primarily using Cure / Cure II and brought out other healing options when I felt it was called for. You know, the way the upcoming V4.0 WHM Lily system would benefit from.


Nobody was telling anyone how to play their role. Everyone was having fun. That is how I prefer to play PUG content.

So give it a rest. Yoshi-P has made his intentions clear multiple times since the beginning of the game, and every time, "the meta" turns people into obnoxious trolls. Let players experience the content for themselves and if you don't like how other people play, form a static with like-minded people and leave the duty finder alone.

[SaitoHikari]

As expected, everything turned out the way I predicted



The trolls did exactly what I expected them to do, watch little or nothing of the video, and make belligerent quips about me being bad at the game.

Entire context for everything below.

Okay, let's go then.

1) Within the first 20 seconds of the video, I already found something you could improve on. USE YOUR FREECURES. SERIOUSLY. USE THEM. You have 15 seconds to cast a stronger heal that costs NO MP. Going even further into the video, I'm not sure if you EVER use any Freecure procs at all.

At the second group of mobs:

2) You used Regen and Asylum at the same time, and yet continued casting Cure I. This is completely unnecessary and entirely inefficient, because with a mob pack that small, Regen and Asylum by themselves would have kept the tank topped off or very close to it for about 20 seconds. All your cure casting really did was to top off your tank split seconds before your heal over time spells would have done so afterwards.
3) Did you know Holy stuns prevent most enemies from attacking for 5 seconds? That buys time for your regeneration heals to activate, AND does a significant chunk of damage to enemies? Even without Cleric Stance, the stun itself is still beneficial.
4) Do you have so little trust in your tanks that you have to keep their HP above 90% at all times? They're built to take damage. That doesn't mean they'll get knocked down like a pyramid built of dominoes if you look away for a few seconds, unless there's a Final Sting asshole somewhere.

At the first boss:

- Your reaction speed is very, very slow. Consider what happens at 6:05. You're looking at the Dragoon and you're moving in a way that signifies that you clearly realize that the Dragoon isn't at full HP. But it takes you 6 seconds (which is two whole global cooldowns) to actually do something about it.
- Even though your casting is minimal, you spend most of the fight at about 50-70% MP. I've come to theorize that your aversion to DPSing may stem from past experiences where any attempts to resulted in yourself running out of mana. Know that Shroud of Saints restores a significant chunk of mana over time, and that Assize also restores a flat 10% whenever it's used. Both should be used as often as possible, if possible.

I haven't bothered to watch beyond that (at least not yet, but I'll proceed once I'm done with dinner - because at least you're willing to post a video of yourself, which means you risk huge amount of negative publicity, which is something I can respect), but there is something important I've noted from the video. You mentioned that 1) you're undergeared, and 2) this video is a blind run of the dungeon. The latter would explain your slow reaction speed. Perhaps it is foolhardy to insert yourself into this argument so passionately when you clearly don't yet have the experience to utilize your entire skillset to greater effect. You are arguing with people that have YEARS worth of experience playing this game.

---

Looked briefly at the second boss once I noticed people mentioning that there was a wipe there. There actually was no wipe, but... Even shifting into Cleric Stance for one moment and using Assize in the center would have cut the HP of all of the rocks and the bunny minions down to around 65% (a guesstimate based on your gear). It's THAT powerful. Throwing a Holy on top of that should have reduced their HP further down to about 40%.

Also, familiarize yourself with Tetraglammation. Note that this dungeon run was 37 minutes. That means you had 37 chances to use it (a 60 second cooldown is not a long time at all), if you tried to use it as often as possible. Tetraglammation is not only a powerful heal in itself, its utility is even stronger, because it's one of your few heals that does not have a casting time to use.

People can say, 'the DPS just need to get better' (and I have to say, the DPS in that video were awful, especially the Bard when taking his gear into account, which drives me insane as a Bard main), but anyone that actually believes that instead of looking inwards for improvement needs to realize that... There comes a practical point where you have to step up to the plate and go above and beyond to get things done. Letting a wipe happen to prove a point is the most self-defeating and time-wasting thing a person can ever do.

When a wipe happens, I don't go blaming other people, I start thinking about what I could have done differently to prevent it in the first place. It's this philosophy that has allowed me to become so good at being a Bard, and I've perhaps prevented countless wipes from occurring (the simplest examples being aware enough to note that one healer in my 24-man raid party may be dead, and the other is only seconds away from dying to a DoT debuff, and I throw my instant cast Warden's Paean - an advantage no other job in the game has - to cleanse the debuff and save them, when their death could have spiraled into a full wipe later in the fight) even though I'm just a 'filthy expendable DPS'. So what if I'm carrying people? I'd rather let my actions set an example instead of being petty.

[KisaiTenshi]

I haven't bothered to watch beyond that (at least not yet, but I'll proceed once I'm done with dinner - because at least you're willing to post a video of yourself, which means you risk huge amount of negative publicity, which is something I can respect), there is something I've noted from the video. You mentioned that 1) you're undergeared, and 2) this video is a blind run of the dungeon. The latter would explain your slow reaction speed. Perhaps it is foolhardy to insert yourself into this argument when you clearly don't yet have the experience to utilize your entire skillset to greater effect. You are arguing with people that have YEARS worth of experience playing this game.

That's fine, I'd rather hear a constructive comments. There's no fun in posting videos of people facerolling content. I usually only turn the video recording on when I expect things to go wrong to begin with, or if I haven't played the content before, or in the case of this video, both.

But the entire argument from the beginning is about players expectations from healers, and one expectation you can not take for granted is that all the players in the DF will play exactly the same way, or even be good at that role. I set the bar at "If I can keep up, all is good", which is true for dungeons that are pure random PUG's.

[Fyce]

snip

I'm sorry you feel that way, but I understand it.
The thing is... this isn't the first time this issue arised. And this won't be the last.

People already tried the calm and tempered way of doing things. Of teaching people how to improve and how to play the game in a better way.
But some people are absolutly not responsive to this. They don't seek improvements, they don't seek "tips and tricks" or explanations. They'll just say that their way of playing is the right one, and that anyone saying otherwise can basically go f*ck himself. To stay polite.

We reached a point where most "calm" posts are ignored. Only the provocations, insults and sarcasm will get you a reaction from the other side. So people started being tired of being kind and patient with people who, obviously, didn't gave a single f*ck.

It's some kind of vicious circle, because we are in a situation where some people care, and some people don't.
So, if you don't want to get caught in that, the best thing is to ignore everyone. If you still can.