We're all DDs now >.>

[Kikoten]

Tank gets called out for lack of DPS. Here's how to respond:

"I am too dealing damage per swing! See this weapon in my hand? Every time I swing it, it deals damage! So bite my shiny metal butt!"

Healer gets called out for lack of DPS. Here's how to respond:

"But I am dealing damage per second. Every second I keep you alive, you deal my damage!"

There ya go. Everyone can stop calling everyone else out now.

[YitharV2]

Why are you wailing at the players?

Wail at SE for making tanking and healing so overpowered and easy that people don't even consider them full jobs.

Go ahead, make holding aggro and surviving just basic mobs require the same effort as dealing decent DPS on a DPS job. Make it so that you need to always be casting as healer to do your job like any DPS needs to. Give them proper rotations and priority systems that they need to follow in order to do their basic job.

And then watch as the wave of sub-par tanks and healers who fail at their basic job washes over us. But at least nobody is going to complain about them not doing DPS anymore, because a tank/healer that can do their job is gonna become as rare as a DPS that can dish out decent numbers, rather than something you take for granted.

Yeah. You can watch a video of me tanking in TERA here. I know some people don't like active mitigation, but I like it, at least the way TERA does it. Because I don't know if you can tell, but I was trying to maximize DPS while minimizing damage taken while trying to hold aggro. I was using DPS spec except for 1 aggro crystal on weapon btw. On gear you can choose either to have more damage (power/crit) or more aggro.

I kind of agree with OP. I wasn't comfortable with DPSing as a tank in FFXIV until recently, but I've felt the pressure to DPS as a tank. You see me trying to maximize DPS in that video but I had 8 months of tanking experience by then. I'd like SE to make things more challenging for tanks and healers, but I'm not holding my breath. To Yoshi-P, it's a good thing this game is easy. In this twitch video, he actually says that. Although he's talking in respect to raids, I believe he feels the same way about tanks and healers based on his recent interview here. From what I can tell he wants it to be easy so more people play them, but for me, being too easy somewhat turns me away from the roles.

[Niyuka]

I think its funny how in every genre except for MMORPGs, game designers have realized that there is such a thing as "too easy". The most successful, popular games on the market can be punishingly difficult and complex to master, and arent all that easy to learn.
However, somehow MMO designers are stuck in this rut of thinking so very very little of their playerbase, they believe anyhting beyond 1-2-3 is too hard.

[Driavna]

I think its funny how in every genre except for MMORPGs, game designers have realized that there is such a thing as "too easy". The most successful, popular games on the market can be punishingly difficult and complex to master, and arent all that easy to learn.
However, somehow MMO designers are stuck in this rut of thinking so very very little of their playerbase, they believe anyhting beyond 1-2-3 is too hard.

Modern video games are, in general, easy mode outside very specific difficulty settings just like FXIV with savage content or WoW with mythic.

[Shurrikhan]

I think its funny how in every genre except for MMORPGs, game designers have realized that there is such a thing as "too easy". The most successful, popular games on the market can be punishingly difficult and complex to master, and aren't all that easy to learn.

I think the majority of MMORPG designers are pretty well in touch with the concept, too. I've seen two or three different developer reports/letters to the players from MMOs I've played that actually blamed (two explicitly, another implicitly) their own mistakenly excessive streamlining or loss of depth when attempting to increase accessibility for lost player count on specific classes or to subscriptions...

The balance is real, as is player upset. Which makes it all the more important to take a far view, because it'll be hard to get back to the desired intention if the initial design's wrong or, worse, stays wrong for quite a while. Neglect your difficulty curve early on, or retroactive changes to smooth the interim when targeting later content, and it will bite you.

And of course, it doesn't help that the more each successive MMO caters to an LCD MMO-hopping population, the more their options are limited design-wise...

[Lambdafish]

Tank gets called out for lack of DPS. Here's how to respond:

"I am too dealing damage per swing! See this weapon in my hand? Every time I swing it, it deals damage! So bite my shiny metal butt!"

Healer gets called out for lack of DPS. Here's how to respond:

"But I am dealing damage per second. Every second I keep you alive, you deal my damage!"

There ya go. Everyone can stop calling everyone else out now.

A tanks job is to keep the DPS and healers alive by making it so the mob isn't punching them in the face, surely that means that I can make the same argument as a tank. I'll flash and keep the boss off of the DPS, and they will deal my damage for me. I like this idea

[Driavna]

And of course, it doesn't help that the more each successive MMO caters to an LCD MMO-hopping population, the more their options are limited design-wise...

That mainly have to do with production cost due how demanding players are for graphics this days, the same players that want hardcore games also want triple AAA quality when their numbers alone can't support that kind of investment. Gamers willing to play MMO's like Mortal Online are few.

Another example of this is how people get hyped by graphics alone like with Black Desert Online, to the point they will buy it even when was common knowledge that have almost no content.

[Kikoten]

A tanks job is to keep the DPS and healers alive by making it so the mob isn't punching them in the face, surely that means that I can make the same argument as a tank. I'll flash and keep the boss off of the DPS, and they will deal my damage for me. I like this idea

Hmmm... you're right. I didn't think about that. I was just trying to make fun of the whole tired topic of healer/tank damage dealing issues, being called out, and so on. I guess they're both tank responses. I wanted to throw a DPS response in there, but I couldn't think of anything funny enough.

[Niyuka]

Well, right now the difficulty curve is really weird in FFXIV. It starts slow and extremely easy, to the point of driving off people who just get bored. Its not a good newcomer experience at all. At around Aurum Vale, it picks up quite a bit, and unless you are heavily overgeared, the non-50 and non-60 dungeons, basically the levelling stuff, can be nontrivial - i would say that although the jump is sudden, its alright.

Then you turn 60, and the game becomes much easier again. FFXIV is basically the easiest at level-cap and right at start, with the more complex and engaging part being somewhere before cap.

A few friends of mine recently tried to get into it, but they found this extremely counterintuitive and disappointing. So I would say this is simply bad design, and players asking for things to be made more simple LATER ON are just adding to the problem.

[FF16Necromancer]

I keep seeing so many posts on the tank forums, healer forums, and general page about how tanks are not 'stance dancing' enough and their dps is low. Also how healers who don't also 'stance dance' and dps enough should/will be kicked. This huge focus on personal dps for every single role in the game is discouraging, and I understand it is due, mainly, to how much everyone overgears everything now. But the mentality will stick, and be detrimental to the game.

I love healing, and I dps as much as I can so I'm not bored, but there are some who choose to not dps as a healer and to me, that's fine. Their role in the game is 'healer' - a spot they chose and one that is meant to heal. Should they dps? Maybe, if efficiency is top priority. But if it isn't fun to them, and this is a GAME, why play something in a way that isn't fun anymore when all they want to do is heal. So, I get those players (though I'd be totally bored if I didn't dps).

The same with tanks -- though to a little lesser degree since dps is built into even their enmity combos to some degree. However, people berating tanks for spending too much time in tank stance and not optimizing their dps are also missing the point. Is aggro held? Do mobs attack anyone but the tank? Does the tank pick up adds (if needed)? Again, as with healers, extra dps is always nice, but really shouldn't be 'expected' of the role.

Indeed, tanks and healers are being called out for lack of dps, when the ACTUAL dps of the game cannot be called out for often sub-par dps since to do so would almost certainly involve parsing and could result in a ban. So here we have tanks and healers who have roles with dps as a merely incidental and extra (mostly - tanks, see above) benefit being harassed for not doing what the true DPS should - and the true DPS being unable to be called out for the exact same thing.

At this point - everyone should play a true dps class as it seems 'damage per second' is all anyone cares about in roles anymore.

Yeah, in WoW there's quite a fair deal of focus on CC and healing which you don't quite see in this game.