This is just appalling

[Belhi]

So I've had cash shop defenders tell me that I have no idea how the funds for these were allocated. This is why my original post included a statement about resources, and the fact that people making assets for the cash shop would need to be trained on XIV systems, requiring time etc. This is not refutable.

The point regarding money on the other hand... is a double-edged sword. You can't claim that the investments were within the xiv budget and not outside of it, just as I can't claim the opposite. You don't know if they would have been financed otherwise.

Yes I can because I understand how accounting works (its what I am trained at) and since corporations tend to try and keep accounting standards uniform (due to regulation and reporting across countries) the hints given give a pretty strong hints on how SE structures in revenue streams.

Even then IF, and this is a big IF, they did have the cash shop times created from FF14's budget then that budget would have been allocated taking into consideration earnings from the cash shop meaning that without the cash shops earnings FF14's budget would have been reduced as the cost of developing cash shop items would have increased the amount of funds allocated to the game.

Simply put your sub isn't paying for those items. If your not buying them off the cash shop you haven't paid for them.

[Lycieus]

Yes I can because I understand how accounting works (its what I am trained at)

Awesome. I'm trained in software development.

Even then IF, and this is a big IF, they did have the cash shop times created from FF14's budget then that budget would have been allocated taking into consideration earnings from the cash shop meaning that without the cash shops earnings FF14's budget would have been reduced as the cost of developing cash shop items would have increased the amount of funds allocated to the game.

Simply put your sub isn't paying for those items. If your not buying them off the cash shop you haven't paid for them.

Nothing you've said demonstrates that. Why would Square carve out an entirely separate budget for cash shop items, especially since they are using members of the FFXIV dev team to create those assets in the first place?

[Belhi]

Awesome. I'm trained in software development.

Nothing you've said demonstrates that. Why would Square carve out an entirely separate budget for cash shop items, especially since they are using members of the FFXIV dev team to create those assets in the first place?

Because it makes it easier to track revenue streams vs expenses in the book keeping. Yoshi P has outright said that cash shop items have to forecast to make enough money to pay for their own development or they don't get developed and he doesn't make that call. That means the resources used to pay for the creation of those items is paid for by those items. Project management would tie into this since allocation of man hours needed for development of projects would be used to calculate how much staff will be needed to produce the desired products. That is what scheduling is. The additional hours needed to produce the cash shop items would be factored into that when hiring and maintaining staff on the project. The expenses, calculated probably in man hours, would then be allocated to their projects and their respective budgets.

Now that isn't 100% for sure how they would do it but considering what we know of how they greenlight cash shop projects, that is the model that would make sense. Just throwing everything into the FF14 budget expenses would make cost analysis and profit and loss reports for cash shop items very difficult and it would be hard to calculate the profit they provided. That information is essential in business planning and in some cases legally required under accounting standards so accurate reports can be produced for regulators and shareholders.

When you have a cash shop, you suddenly have a conflict of interest. For every item made, person hired, or unit of time spent on development, there will always be some bean counter that's asking "can we allocate this to the cash shop?" thus removing content from the game that we payed for through subscription.

The only things that should be in the cash shop are administrative things (race change, name change, etc), and things you can acquire in game (old event items). That at least encourages the devs to make cool event items, in hopes of selling them when the event is over.

There is no Bean counter saying that because it would make their job a lot harder. Bean counters like clearly stated expense and revenue paired off so things can be tracked much easier. Particularly when tax comes into the picture. Combined with what we know about their forecasting and green lighting of development of cash shop items we know its outright untrue. You wouldn't be getting any of the non-seasonal items in game without the cash shop because they never would have been developed in the first place.

[Lycieus]

Now that isn't 100% for sure how they would do it but considering what we know of how they greenlight cash shop projects, that is the model that would make sense. Just throwing everything into the FF14 budget expenses would make cost analysis and profit and loss reports for cash shop items very difficult and it would be hard to calculate the profit they provided. That information is essential in business planning and in some cases legally required under accounting standards so accurate reports can be produced for regulators and shareholders.

None of this work needs be done if there is no cash shop.

[Belhi]

None of this work needs be done if there is no cash shop.

Actually most of it would have to be done anyway. Things like the server upgrades would have had pretty rigorous cost analysis. Budget approval would be based on expected production so estimates could be done on expenses and resources needed. That is ignoring the fact that SE has many projects apart from FF14 that also factor into its budget model.

Plus none of this changes the fact that many of the items in the cash shop are paid for by the cash shop sales and as such wouldn't be developed without those sales.

Lets not forget that you can earn all the Wow items by playing the game since you can simply buy the currency through ingame coins. Heck you can even buy playtime through ingame coins..nothing like that is possible in FF14

While true I think its worth pointing out that system doesn't exist in a vacuum. You can buy Cash shop items and playtime with in game currency but the flipside of that system is you can also buy ingame gold with real world money.

You want one side of the system, your probably going to have to accept the other which means people buying Gil with real world money. Considering some of the best gear at the moment of launch for raids is crafted that gets perilously close to Buy to Win, unless they nerf the gear and screw over crafters.

You don't get to cherry pick parts of payment models you like and leave out the bits you don't. Payment models are designed in the end to ensure revenue is enough to justify the production and continued development of a game or service. There is always some form of revenue stream integrated into it.

[Moonlite]

While true I think its worth pointing out that system doesn't exist in a vacuum. You can buy Cash shop items and playtime with in game currency but the flipside of that system is you can also buy ingame gold with real world money.

You want one side of the system, your probably going to have to accept the other which means people buying Gil with real world money. Considering some of the best gear at the moment of launch for raids is crafted that gets perilously close to Buy to Win, unless they nerf the gear and screw over crafters.

You don't get to cherry pick parts of payment models you like and leave out the bits you don't. Payment models are designed in the end to ensure revenue is enough to justify the production and continued development of a game or service. There is always some form of revenue stream integrated into it.

I haven't played WoW in a long time so point out any mistakes. Real people buy token from cash shop, they then put that token up for sale in game(sort of MBish), and another player buys that in game token and can use it on their account. Basically transferring gil like people who in party finder already sell Mog Station gifts. If no one buys tokens does Blizzard fill the npc with tokens themselves.

Also the whole winning is amusing. We are talking crafted gear is what 1-3 weeks of progression before tomes? Jump potions already skip 1-3 weeks of progression. Both are content that is no more relevant in three+ months anyway.

I get that some people are resistant to others being able to buy gil. So I see notice Accounts receiving permanent ban: 30,502, one week ago Accounts receiving permanent ban: 27,927. They are trying but not winning. They also let all the items these bots create into the market. If I bot wind shards from the MB and I know it is impossible for one person to have over 1 million shards up at all times, hes probably a bot. But my shard total doesn't decrease after they ban them. People are still buying, they might as well control it and benefit. Also RMTs create credit card issues, since supposedly (don't work for a CC company) they use stolen card numbers which create a charge back which can cause issues for the company.