Do AST really need this Buff?

[Eloah]

A little RNG is good makes things feel "fresh" when they should be and effective in times of need. but too much RNG isn't good at all. When AST first came out they made them with too much RNG, but they mitigated it to a decent percent. the new card system is a nice touch, this way each card is viable no matter the situation, but the other things they got are overkill. WHM got tacked on RNG, similar to BARD for 3.0... yeah this will be fun for 4.0 now lol, and SCH had their entire damaging tool kit and AoE removed.

[Fernosaur]

Posting constructive criticism is one thing, but posting what you posted helps no one at all! It's nothing but one big salty hyperbolic thread.

To be completely fair, if AST meets SB's release with the numbers they have showed on the Media Tours, they really do need a nerf. They have needed once since 3.4, actually.

It's not that we don't want AST to be good. I actually can understand the buff to Noct's shields because NoctAST lacks the HPS sustain that SCHs have with constant Embrace. So I get that. I think it's a terrible design choice, and more of a band-aid that is not very well implemented, specially one that comes in a time where they could have literally redesigned the entire job (like they more or less did with WAR, PLD and DRK), but I get the intent behind it.

But that's exactly the problem, though. This was THE chance they had to redesign AST to let it be its own thing and reign in the realm of utility. The problem with AST is that the basic healing toolkit is an exact copy-paste from WHM's with the added utility of cards and seemingly smaller potencies. And I say 'seemingly' because the stance buffs make the smaller potencies 100% pointless. But this, this unimaginative design that is at the core of Astrologian: that's what the problem is.

They should have taken the chance with this pseudo-fresh start to reinvent AST and give WHM its niche back. They say they want WHM to be the pure healer -something that, yes, it isn't optimal for speedkills or whatever, but it is their identity. And it can have a use, cause safety nets are very important for low-IL progression. However, AST is just as pure a healer as WHM is, due to its massive healing proficiency, and on top of that they are the Queens of party utility, blowing even Bard and Machinist -the jobs supposed to be the poster boys of support and utility- out of the water.

That is the problem with current healer balance, and the dev team completely failed to adress it. And now it is impossible to adress it in time because there's only two weeks until the release of Stormblood. With some luck, it won't be fixed until 5.0 drops. Until then, WHM is gonna suffer the same sorry fate PLD suffered throughout all of HW: they're gonna be patched up again and again with band-aids that won't even solve the core of what was PLD's main problem.

For the record, PLD's problems, and the problems surrounding tank balance in general have been adressed very well in Stormblood by making PLD's raidwide mitigation skills extremely important for progression and by switching up the main deal breakers WAR and DRK had around to be shared by all tank jobs. With the removal of the Slashing Debuff monopoly WAR had, now party compositions can be more flexible, and DRK and PLD don't have to be shoehorned into the imaginary and so-called MT position anymore thanks to the changes in their toolkits. While we will have to wait until the game releases to see for sure how much damage each tank can put out, I think PLD's damage is still gonna be slightly lower than the other two while offering very important and considerable raidwide mitigation and self-sustainment. This makes it so PLD is a very relevant cushion tank that won't be locked out of raiding. Once we overgear the content, it is likely PLD will once again fall out of fashion for speed-kills, but their utility will remain being super important and will keep them flexible and wanted in PF farms and other types of content: PLD players will not be locked out of raiding. If anything, they'll be needed for a long time.

This is what should be the case with the healers as well.

Make WHM the low-risk/low-reward healer that is reliable and perfectly stable, able to keep the party alive through anything.
Make SCH the perfect supplementary healer that has tools focused on helping their healing partners in every situation, but which requires planning and tons of strategic thinking plus opportunities for a lot of personal DPS coming from both them and their partner.
Make AST the high-risk/high-reward healer that isn't as reliable for emergencies, but brings an incredible amount of utility to expand the party's DPS output and performance through means that aren't related to their healing ability.
And also don't make their toolkit a badly-planned carbon copy of the other two healers that shoehorns them into playing WHM or playing SCH. Let AST be their own thing while respecting the other two.

That makes it so the players can choose whichever combination they want to bring: whether they wanna stick with the big deeps utility or with the safety net of WHM. Sure, WHM will probably meet the same fate PLD will likely meet in terms of speedruns and post-echo competition, but they'll remain highly relevant through all of progression and their safety net will always be a welcome addition when you don't know who you're getting paired up with. The AST/SCH combo should be riskier and should require much more communication, not the perfectly progression-safe meta it currently is.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

What we need is a compare and contrast.

AST:
-Stronger base healing than WHM
-Stronger utility
-Low MP cost
-Better MP management
-Strongest potency AOE heal in the game, stronger than Cure III by 350 potency

WHM:
-Flowers.

[Adventica6]

Nerfing Ast isn't how you make the other healers better, this game is about Dps and speedruns, what healer brings dps buffs ?

It's called a meta, whm doesn't fit into it because it provides zero damage buffs or meaningful tools compared to Ast.

The pure healer in the game is healing LESS than the hybrid healers, that's the problem, BUFF the Whm potencies by like 200-300 and maybe it will be viable, even then maybe not.

Also don't forget stigma, even if they do get buffed they will still be rejected from raids as lolwhm, similar to loldrg in ffxi (which persisted for the entire games life of 10+ years).

[MsTanya]

Its not so much nerf ast its just stop overbuffing it, leave it where it is now which many will say is still the most powerful of the three healers and bring the other two up to its level. At the rate they're going with every patch raining buffs from the heavens on ast we will be in a duo ast meta sooner rather than later. If the media tour values and jp tooltips are to be implemented as is then that may already be the case honestly.

[Kabzy]

Its not so much nerf ast its just stop overbuffing it, leave it where it is now which many will say is still the most powerful of the three healers and bring the other two up to its level. At the rate they're going with every patch raining buffs from the heavens on ast we will be in a duo ast meta sooner rather than later. If the media tour values and jp tooltips are to be implemented as is then that may already be the case honestly.

If LB penalties aren't too harsh I wouldn't be surprised seeing dual AST as a viable comp.

I do agree that nerfing isn't nice, but they've already dumbed down healers a lot with all these changes. If SCH and WHM were brought up to ASTs levels, this healer role would be faceroll easy. Considering the potencies we've seen on AST so far, I would really hope they will be nerfed before launch. There isn't a whole lot of balancing they can do in a few weeks, but that kind of needs to happen. As for what happens with WHM after, we can only hope it won't be a repeat of 3.0 AST.

[Ayer2015]

AST shouldn't have hots or shields... The manner in which sects were implemented is causing a large part of the healer issue (WHM lily mechanic aside)
Adjusting aspected skill potencies to compensate for the loss of the removed effects would be a sufficient adjustment and would create a greater sense of identity among the existing healers.
Current state, I'm scared what a 4th healer job will look like.

[Keikun]

Maybe don't post things like "Remove Benefic" from AST, nice edit btw, because that was in your original post.


You're also the one who says:


if you want to be taken seriously then, add something constructive to the discussions going on at the moment for this, not ending with your statement with the above.

So don't you assume I'm just saying what ever I please and it being baseless, because your post doesn't really help you out much.

On the actual topic at hand...



Again I don't see a point in giving Diurnal Sect a healing potency bonus at all and removing the speed bonus from it. Nocturnal probably would have been fine staying at 10% as well. But I suppose we'll see the for sure numbers come early access.

You play as AST as your main healer, we got that, now you can stop pretending you dont find these buffs OP.

[Cherub]

I love Astro and I play it a lot.

.....But a 300% Noct shield??? Are you serious? This has just become the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen in this game.

[Yamimarik]

You play as AST as your main healer, we got that, now you can stop pretending you dont find these buffs OP.

Don't put words in my mouth, I never said that.

I just said, being hyperbolic is not going to get anyone anywhere, and nerfing AST now (not what buffs they're getting in 4.0) isn't going to help anyone, and will just hinder AST. I agree actually the buffs are not really something AST needed at all and some of the changes I'm not to fond of. But nerfing what AST is now (not the 4.0 buffs) is not the answer, and that was what the OP was getting at it seemed like... especially with that original line of removing Benefic.

Again if you want to contribute to the discussions going on and want to be taking seriously, don't just throw around stuff that isn't helpful.

So try again!