Puppetmaster Job for Final Fantasy XIV (2. Job for PUG)

[KisaiTenshi]

Thats just a question of how you would design the mechanics around the job itself. Every class/job in FFXIV is possible. Im not a game designer to think about how a PUPP would be a great new job class for the game. But I mean a Ninja could also be an other monk because he uses duel wield for damage.. but NIN has its own gameplay mechanics that make NIN a legit class ingame.

same for RDM instead of using just only BLM and WHM spells (like the RDM iN FF11) he has its own spells and gameplay mechanic in FFXIV (balancing black and white magic out in order to boost your melee attack etc.). They could even make the pets of PUPP completely different. Instead of having endless MP for the mage pupptets they could implement something "heat-o-metre" bar .



So if you command your puppet to fullfill several powerfull skills like stoneskin or cure III it costs a higher amount of points that fill your puppet's bar and increase the chance of overheat. So if you use too many special abillities your automaton overheats and the puppet is stunned for a several amount of time. (overheat was also a thing for PUPP in FFXI) The bar could cool down overtime automatically. Making the skills of a puppet more powerful than the summoners pets spam basic attacks (and the possibillity to heal or buff), but also limiting their usage by a overheat bar.

My reference is how people are crying over changes to WHM and not trusting SE to actually know what they're doing :P Some changes feel hamfisted while others make sense.

Like, in other games that have some kind of puppeteer class, they generally are weapons themselves, not really anything more creative (they work like a summon in some games, while the player itself stands still and is vulnerable.) I like the idea of being able to "mimic" a class in the game (eg one you have, or ones someone else is playing) and simplifying the controls down so the player doesn't actually need to know the CD's and cast times of the puppets using those, but still provide some limitation to avoid spamming things endlessly without effort or effect.

Huh why not?

They said back then that they can imagine to implement a second job for an other class again.

So why they shouldnt? Whats wrong about SCH and SMN? And even if they share common skills they play completely different or would you deny that fact?
Thats an absolute non-argument for me.

It goes back to V1.0 (there were several classes that were in the data files for V1.0 that never actually made it into the game, of which were alluded to in the storyline, hence you can search FFXIV's forums for "musketeer")

In a nutshell, FFXIV was supposed to have Wizardy's cross-class job system. Then Wizardy Online actually came out and did it correctly and painfully. Basically that was jettisoned and scaled back quite a bit. But they still wanted to put Summoner and Scholar into the game, so they needed to create a base class. Unfortunately that is a DPS base class, but Scholar is a healer class, thus the Scholar has no below-level 30 healing skills (other than Physick and Resurrection, which are required to be at that sub-30 level) and has mostly DoT type skills from the DPS stage of that class.

If they were to do it again, they would have to be strictly "samey" classes, like Archer and Musketeer (we got Machinist instead which is another "pet" type of DPS.) So the logical thing for a Puppeteer class/job would be to share a base class with Machinist, but none will ever exist. Any new job will likely start at level 30 to avoid the class system entirely.

[Ama_Hamada]

they can't balance 1 class going into 2 jobs, no. Anyone that says "make lit like ACN how it turn into SMN and SCH" does not understand how much headache all the issues are with that. I want to see SMN and SCH split off from each other, that is how bad it is.

As for pup, not something I care for, if it makes a lot people happy sure I guess, not I really do not care for it.

[Krystalmethot]

They're are multiple things wrong with sch/smn. One being the fact that the attributes are not separated from each other so I have to keep switching between intelligence and mind to use them properly. Two as some one said anything below 30 and your running strictly off of arcanist a does job. And I'll stop at three with it would lvl based off the class not the job so if it was based off pug and u lvled monk you would end up lvling it at the same time. Now some people might see a problem with that others might.

The idea of a puppeteer class or even a beast tamer class does sound appealing but I don't know if that is something we will ever see. Maybe when we enter garlean territory it might be a job we get seeing as they are trying to make the jobs fit the premis of the expanson

[New_Game_Plus]

I could totally dig a Puppet Master Class.

[Keikun]

Good idea, except for the 2 jobs part.

[ReplicaX]

I think SE realizes the mistake , but there's nothing stopping SE from coming out with some kind of Puppeteer job.

You are missing the simple point of my post. It would have to be a Job not tied to a class and its own unique skillset. I am not discouraging PUP in XIV at all.

Huh why not?

They said back then that they can imagine to implement a second job for an other class again.

Every job release post NIN has been class-less as classes are becoming more and more obsolete moving forward since ARR release. Why waste the Dev time for an archaic class system from 1.0. They are also looking at the possible complete class removal for 5.0. 4.0 has no new classes and the overhaul to the new Role Abilities removes all the additional class/cross-class actions required to jobs.

TLDR: They are clearly moving further and further away from the class system. Work your PUP ideas into the current formula SE is using.

[Tonkra]

Btw. here some ideas and scribbling and some ideas how a pupp's game mechanic or pet skills could look like:

My idea around the PUPP is based on the job in Final Fantasy XI Online.
For those who havent played FFXI some small videos here:
PUPPETMASTER Solo - Final Fantasy XI [Video]
PUPPETMASTER GROUP - Final Fantasy XI [Video]

I am a hybrid and pet loving class, what i miss about the recent Pet classes is that they are quiet WoW'ish inspired. You summon your pets, they auto attack and have endless MP/TP so that they spam their skills endlessly (kind of "summon and forget" pets with small additional dmg). With PUPP i want to have a job where you have deep direct control over your pet and where your pet makes a huge amount of your total damage - the master and the puppet being closely interrelated with each other. So that even the emotes of the puppetmaster are being imitated by the puppet. And maybe something that is combined with the Puppetmasters melee attacks.

This is just a concept idea from me personally and also relies slightly on the pupp in FFXI but made it more "FFXIV" alike, where the job has its own Interface and mechanic. The similarity which this concept shares is that if you spam your commands to your puppet in FFXI that the pet also fell into "stasis" (how i call it). While Stasis the pet was stunned/ or not able to use any abillity for a period of time.

MY CONCEPT - SOME IDEAS (all numbers and skills are fictional - just some ideas to come up with)






#Vote Up if you would support PUPP to have also in FFXIV

Thank you


Each abillity generates a special amount of heat when the automaton overheats it cant perform any actions for a period of time. (if you dont manage the heat correct)

Heatpoints decrease automatically over time slowly or via skills such as "cooling".


Anyways im quiet sure there is always a way to implement every job into FFXIV with a specific mechanic if the Game design team wants to.

[Hamada]

Btw. here some ideas and scribbling and some ideas how a pupp's game mechanic or pet skills could look like:



Heatpoints decrease automatically over time slowly or via skills such as "cooling".

Any thoughts?^^

1 job= 1 role. THEY CANNOT BALANCE IT !! otherwise. The SMN and SCH failure shows this, the fact RDM cannot heal shows this. You can't just slap different roles and basically trying to steal other jobs and fit it into 1. This is why FFXI had trouble with it too, it would either be extremely gimp or extremely OP, there is no way they can properly balance something like that.

[Tonkra]

1 job= 1 role. THEY CANNOT BALANCE IT !! otherwise. The SMN and SCH failure shows this, the fact RDM cannot heal shows this. You can't just slap different roles and basically trying to steal other jobs and fit it into 1. This is why FFXI had trouble with it too, it would either be extremely gimp or extremely OP, there is no way they can properly balance something like that.

I dont see that. It is one role : damage dealer (Puppetmaster + Puppets (Auto attack damage/ skill damage) with some utillities (concerning which pet is out).


As i said i would design the puppet pets differently to other "regular" pets we have in FFXIV now (auto skill spam/endless MP).Therefore i would add that "heatometer". Every puppet skill creates more or less amount of heat and you command all skills manually. If you reach overheat your puppet isnt able to perform any actions for a huge period of time.

So that it is not possible for you to outheal a healer... moreover to assist if there is a tricky situation if you have a whm automaton out. (for example)

so that it prevents you to use CURE for example regularly and spammy like e.g. the fairy of the Scholar.
That these puppetskills are used as manual commands instead of the auto spam system (with endless MP) which we have with all pet in FFXIV as for now.

i would like to have MORE control and more significant damage for the pets instead of an auto spam system.

[QuarIm]

Now make the puppet masters main stat to be something else than the monks main stat. And at the same time, leave puppetmaster with some of the same damage abilities that monk has, except they scale off str and not the puppetmasters main stat, so you need some bandaid thrown ontop of it, something along the lines of cleric stance.

Do you see what a mess this would become?