Puppetmaster Job for Final Fantasy XIV (2. Job for PUG)

[Tonkra]

Puppetmaster

Pupp in FFXI was a melee damage character with hand2hand weapons just like Monk.


I already asked for this long time ago here

And since it would be less afford in contrast to a complete new job because it would share the basic skills from PUG, just like SMN and SCH.

My Suggestion:
Pugilist class

1. Job: Monk (h2h damage dealer)
2. Job: Puppetmaster (h2h petclass)

PUPP could be the second job for the Pugilist class. Just like the ACN has two jobs (SMN & SCH).
He uses the same weapons just like monk.

- reduced damage by 40% in comparison to MNK and PUG
- customizable pet - the ,,automaton": equip your pet with different skills/attachements;

some attachments examples of FFXI:
Turbo Charger II - A wind-based automaton attachment. Functionality: Decreases melee physical attack delay.
Vivi-Valve II - A light-based automaton attachment. Functionality: Increases "Cure" potency
- 4 different types of ,,automaton frames": BLM , WHM , PLD , RNG


Types of automaton frames / PUPP Skills / Concept idea:


Lastly a video of PUPP automaton frames:
Chosing a PUPP Frame VIDEO



PUPP Job Armor

Last but not least.. we already have "automatons" in this game:

Farewell:

[ReplicaX]

They will never do 2 jobs from one class ever again.

Also no 2 jobs share the same skill set besides smn/sch or weapon (see previous statement).

[KisaiTenshi]

They will never do 2 jobs from one class ever again.

Also no 2 jobs share the same skill set besides smn/sch or weapon (see previous statement).

I think SE realizes the mistake , but there's nothing stopping SE from coming out with some kind of Puppeteer job. After all other MMORPG's came out with their own too.

The ideal thing however is something a "wildcard" job role. Remember gogo from FF6? Think Kirby from Nintendo.

EG, if the Puppet Master queues for a dungeon without a puppet summoned, they will be given whatever role is most needed, and only that puppet can be summoned. The puppet can mimic any player-class already in the party by default (eg Paladin, Warrior) suitable for that role, with skills narrowed down to "single target (role)" and "multitarget (role)" , the rest of the actions the Puppet master has are effectively buffs specific to each puppet role. The puppet master, by having that puppet out, the puppet has it's own HP, and is knocked out like a player, not unsummoned. The puppet master could then either repair it, or switch out another puppet of that role.

So someone entering a duty with a tank puppet, could do the tank role. A healer puppet could do the healer role, and a DPS puppet can do DPS. It's just simplified down, and the puppet is far more fragile unless it's wearing the appropriate puppet gear.

I've played something like this in another MMORPG, and the puppet is largely a DPS "weapon", but can be swapped out with other puppets that have different skills. In terms of play balance, it would really be terrible for someone to use the Puppet as a way to enter dungeons as a tank, and then choose to DPS instead because they don't know how to tank. So some level of "forced role" would have to be required by having the puppet out first to queue for a dungeon.

If you had say a WHM and a SCH puppet, having either one out puts you into the healer role, and you can switch between them, but not to DPS or tank. Unlike the actual classes, they are simplified down to "single target" and "multitarget" actions which the puppet will pick whichever action is most effective based on the target selected. The Puppet doesn't have points, it just has longer or shorter cooldowns based on the the buffs. eg "next action will crit", "next action will be instant", basically the RNG mechanic the role normally has is controlled by the player.

The puppets can only be summoned if you have them. They don't take inventory space (like a pet,) but you get a "puppet list" inventory and their levels.

DPS puppets can also be "DPS roulette" selected which will select any non-job puppet matching the dungeon level.

Getting into a more nitpicky area, how the player acquires these puppets could be a few ways:
- You get a level 50/60/70 job puppet by completing the storylines for those jobs, their default gear will reflect the ARR relic gear and race of the player when acquired. Different races/colors can be set.
- DPS puppets for trash and mid-boss monsters if significantly defeated with a puppet. All monsters are DPS Melee. Once knocked out they have to be repaired, can not summon broken puppets. Lower level puppets can be summoned at any time, but can not summon high level puppets into low-level/synced content.
- Tank puppets for final-boss monsters (no primals) if significantly defeated with a puppet. These are Tank puppets.
- Additional Healer puppets would have to be acquired through quests for NPC's

Since all the models already exist in the system in some shape, they can simply be scaled down and no new assets other than "string lines" need to be added to use them.


Largely I think the problem is play balance. A whole lot of exceptions have to be made to how things currently work just for pets/companions already, and healing other players pets thus far has been something of an awkward experience.

If SE wants to step up their AI game, we could have puppets/pets/companions/squadron members all party-members in all content. The reason we likely won't is that AI will either be too stupid or too good (see the AI fairy and AI companion chocobo) and hinder as much as help. So a puppet system that is all manual is more in the spirit of "puppet"'ing, but likely not a lot of fun if all they can do is a handful of actions while the puppet is out, and nothing if the puppet isn't out. But at the same time, if the puppet gives you a level 70 puppet of all player classes without that class being present, and access to all that classes skills, the puppet master does not actually know how to play that role if puppetmaster is the first thing they start as.

So as much as I like the idea, I think if we got a puppetmaster type of job in FFXIV, it would be very hamfisted and consist of nothing but "summon puppet I (DPS)" and "summon puppet II (Tank)" and everything else would be the same as summoner.

[Tonkra]

So as much as I like the idea, I think if we got a puppetmaster type of job in FFXIV, it would be very hamfisted and consist of nothing but "summon puppet I (DPS)" and "summon puppet II (Tank)" and everything else would be the same as summoner.

Thats just a question of how you would design the mechanics around the job itself. Every class/job in FFXIV is possible. Im not a game designer to think about how a PUPP would be a great new job class for the game. But I mean a Ninja could also be an other monk because he uses duel wield for damage.. but NIN has its own gameplay mechanics that make NIN a legit class ingame.

same for RDM instead of using just only BLM and WHM spells (like the RDM iN FF11) he has its own spells and gameplay mechanic in FFXIV (balancing black and white magic out in order to boost your melee attack etc.). They could even make the pets of PUPP completely different. Instead of having endless MP for the mage pupptets they could implement something "heat-o-metre" bar .



So if you command your puppet to fullfill several powerfull skills like stoneskin or cure III it costs a higher amount of points that fill your puppet's bar and increase the chance of overheat. So if you use too many special abillities your automaton overheats and the puppet is stunned for a several amount of time. (overheat was also a thing for PUPP in FFXI) The bar could cool down overtime automatically. Making the skills of a puppet more powerful than the summoners pets spam basic attacks (and the possibillity to heal or buff), but also limiting their usage by a overheat bar.

They will never do 2 jobs from one class ever again.

Also no 2 jobs share the same skill set besides smn/sch or weapon (see previous statement).

Huh why not?

They said back then that they can imagine to implement a second job for an other class again.

So why they shouldnt? Whats wrong about SCH and SMN? And even if they share common skills they play completely different or would you deny that fact?
Thats an absolute non-argument for me.

[KisaiTenshi]

Thats just a question of how you would design the mechanics around the job itself. Every class/job in FFXIV is possible. Im not a game designer to think about how a PUPP would be a great new job class for the game. But I mean a Ninja could also be an other monk because he uses duel wield for damage.. but NIN has its own gameplay mechanics that make NIN a legit class ingame.

same for RDM instead of using just only BLM and WHM spells (like the RDM iN FF11) he has its own spells and gameplay mechanic in FFXIV (balancing black and white magic out in order to boost your melee attack etc.). They could even make the pets of PUPP completely different. Instead of having endless MP for the mage pupptets they could implement something "heat-o-metre" bar .



So if you command your puppet to fullfill several powerfull skills like stoneskin or cure III it costs a higher amount of points that fill your puppet's bar and increase the chance of overheat. So if you use too many special abillities your automaton overheats and the puppet is stunned for a several amount of time. (overheat was also a thing for PUPP in FFXI) The bar could cool down overtime automatically. Making the skills of a puppet more powerful than the summoners pets spam basic attacks (and the possibillity to heal or buff), but also limiting their usage by a overheat bar.

My reference is how people are crying over changes to WHM and not trusting SE to actually know what they're doing :P Some changes feel hamfisted while others make sense.

Like, in other games that have some kind of puppeteer class, they generally are weapons themselves, not really anything more creative (they work like a summon in some games, while the player itself stands still and is vulnerable.) I like the idea of being able to "mimic" a class in the game (eg one you have, or ones someone else is playing) and simplifying the controls down so the player doesn't actually need to know the CD's and cast times of the puppets using those, but still provide some limitation to avoid spamming things endlessly without effort or effect.

Huh why not?

They said back then that they can imagine to implement a second job for an other class again.

So why they shouldnt? Whats wrong about SCH and SMN? And even if they share common skills they play completely different or would you deny that fact?
Thats an absolute non-argument for me.

It goes back to V1.0 (there were several classes that were in the data files for V1.0 that never actually made it into the game, of which were alluded to in the storyline, hence you can search FFXIV's forums for "musketeer")

In a nutshell, FFXIV was supposed to have Wizardy's cross-class job system. Then Wizardy Online actually came out and did it correctly and painfully. Basically that was jettisoned and scaled back quite a bit. But they still wanted to put Summoner and Scholar into the game, so they needed to create a base class. Unfortunately that is a DPS base class, but Scholar is a healer class, thus the Scholar has no below-level 30 healing skills (other than Physick and Resurrection, which are required to be at that sub-30 level) and has mostly DoT type skills from the DPS stage of that class.

If they were to do it again, they would have to be strictly "samey" classes, like Archer and Musketeer (we got Machinist instead which is another "pet" type of DPS.) So the logical thing for a Puppeteer class/job would be to share a base class with Machinist, but none will ever exist. Any new job will likely start at level 30 to avoid the class system entirely.

[Krystalmethot]

They're are multiple things wrong with sch/smn. One being the fact that the attributes are not separated from each other so I have to keep switching between intelligence and mind to use them properly. Two as some one said anything below 30 and your running strictly off of arcanist a does job. And I'll stop at three with it would lvl based off the class not the job so if it was based off pug and u lvled monk you would end up lvling it at the same time. Now some people might see a problem with that others might.

The idea of a puppeteer class or even a beast tamer class does sound appealing but I don't know if that is something we will ever see. Maybe when we enter garlean territory it might be a job we get seeing as they are trying to make the jobs fit the premis of the expanson

[ReplicaX]

I think SE realizes the mistake , but there's nothing stopping SE from coming out with some kind of Puppeteer job.

You are missing the simple point of my post. It would have to be a Job not tied to a class and its own unique skillset. I am not discouraging PUP in XIV at all.

Huh why not?

They said back then that they can imagine to implement a second job for an other class again.

Every job release post NIN has been class-less as classes are becoming more and more obsolete moving forward since ARR release. Why waste the Dev time for an archaic class system from 1.0. They are also looking at the possible complete class removal for 5.0. 4.0 has no new classes and the overhaul to the new Role Abilities removes all the additional class/cross-class actions required to jobs.

TLDR: They are clearly moving further and further away from the class system. Work your PUP ideas into the current formula SE is using.

[Bacent]

So you want a class with double the amount of equipment needed, for player and pet alike?

[Masekase_Hurricane]

No thanks, not after the mess they made with Arcanist

[Shiro--Tsubasa]

Nooo, if we ever get another pet class I'd hope for a monster tamer. One centered around you buffing and commanding your pet to deal the best damage instead of both dealing damage like the SMN. Also more diversity is pets if you can tame open world monsters (possibly even FATES bosses). First thing I'd do is tame a behemoth. lol