A consern about space efficieny since stormblood is not getting enough space increase

[savageink]

The retainer should not be in this game AT ALL! it is too much of a hassle going to 8 different spots for items. Have retainers do the ventures like they do now and THAT IS IT! give us a real bank, give us real logs, etc. the retainer system is a 1.0 relic, get rid of it. Let them sell extra space on the new bank.

I think they are ok for ventures and as a market interface for sales. If they were the interface to a real bank that you can access from the summoning bells, that would be ok. But having them be the bank and have separate inventories is crazy.

[Lycieus]

The retainer should not be in this game AT ALL! it is too much of a hassle going to 8 different spots for items. Have retainers do the ventures like they do now and THAT IS IT! give us a real bank, give us real logs, etc. the retainer system is a 1.0 relic, get rid of it. Let them sell extra space on the new bank.

Perhaps they think its more palatable to sell us retainers so they don't want to make a bank because then people will realize how egregious it is in a subscription-based game.

[KisaiTenshi]

The retainer should not be in this game AT ALL! it is too much of a hassle going to 8 different spots for items. Have retainers do the ventures like they do now and THAT IS IT! give us a real bank, give us real logs, etc. the retainer system is a 1.0 relic, get rid of it. Let them sell extra space on the new bank.

It's true the Retainer system is a V1.0 relic, but the original intent was lost. Bear with me a moment because it was also about the worst possible application of a market system I've ever seen...

So in V1.0, you got your two retainers, and they had an inventory list pretty much identical to the "store" list, where it's just a list of items. You could put stuff on the store just like now, however, to actually FIND something you had to walk to every retainer looking for things. So there was no search. To make things worse, the little booths and stuff that they setup (which are now filled with unimportant NPC's) were actually a series of instances. So you could go to multiple halls looking for things. In a sense the Retainer was a lot closer to how the current housing area was. Except boring and ugly.

So needless to say V2.0's was a substantial improvement, and at least more interesting than the generic bank/auction house mechanic that other games have. That said, the V2.0 retainer suffers from feature creep. Being able to dress them up? That was fine, sending them on ventures? Ehhh might have made sense if you could just partner with them, and they're basically your pack horse. But instead they just disappear and re-appear at the bell and have no additional things. Just like the Squadron. I get the point of these in general, but is there really anything fun about summoning and dismissing a characters that you don't even get to see what they do? Where's the fun in that?

Now if you got rid of them, there will be outrage, so it won't happen. At best you could make the suggestion that they cut down the number of retainers back to 2 per server, and just have some kind of summon-able luggage that has unlimited space for non-gear. Then dump everything that you don't want to sell immediately into this luggage, have the items stack to 9999 and/or select "sell items from luggage inventory" in the store menu to allow the retainer to sell additional quantities in the luggage until gone. So with the luggage open you just mark "sell this" and it will be available in the store when there is space. Then gear is dealt with as either a glamour log (gear is disposed of, but forever re-usable for glamour) or stored (like the armoire does already for special gear.) Since you can't sell stuff you've already worn there is no risk of accidentally selling it on the market.

Like SE has plenty of options for inventory if they just don't put the inventory space on the player. We don't necessarily need a "bank" per se, but a permanently unlockable means of off-character storage is preferred to just throwing things away. We may not all be pack-rats, but we also value our time and don't wish to go hunting for some types of gear again once we have it.

[Lycieus]

The crafters (particularly the Culinarians) have been asking for more on-character inventory space because the amount of processes needed to craft their stuff.

That said... I still want an armoire or wardrobe that I can just put armory gear in and forget about it. That would go allow switching between Combat and DoH/DoL gearsets so much less annoying.

I was unaware that anyone was asking for more space on their characters, that might go some distance in justifying the decision to increase player inventory. Thanks for the info .

[Ama_Hamada]

It's true the Retainer system is a V1.0 relic, but the original intent was lost. Bear with me a moment because it was also about the worst possible application of a market system I've ever seen...

So in V1.0, you got your two retainers, and they had an inventory list pretty much identical to the "store" list, where it's just a list of items. You could put stuff on the store just like now, however, to actually FIND something you had to walk to every retainer looking for things. So there was no search. To make things worse, the little booths and stuff that they setup (which are now filled with unimportant NPC's) were actually a series of instances. So you could go to multiple halls looking for things. In a sense the Retainer was a lot closer to how the current housing area was. Except boring and ugly.

So needless to say V2.0's was a substantial improvement, and at least more interesting than the generic bank/auction house mechanic that other games have. That said, the V2.0 retainer suffers from feature creep. Being able to dress them up? That was fine, sending them on ventures? Ehhh might have made sense if you could just partner with them, and they're basically your pack horse. But instead they just disappear and re-appear at the bell and have no additional things. Just like the Squadron. I get the point of these in general, but is there really anything fun about summoning and dismissing a characters that you don't even get to see what they do? Where's the fun in that?

Now if you got rid of them, there will be outrage, so it won't happen. At best you could make the suggestion that they cut down the number of retainers back to 2 per server, and just have some kind of summon-able luggage that has unlimited space for non-gear. Then dump everything that you don't want to sell immediately into this luggage, have the items stack to 9999 and/or select "sell items from luggage inventory" in the store menu to allow the retainer to sell additional quantities in the luggage until gone. So with the luggage open you just mark "sell this" and it will be available in the store when there is space. Then gear is dealt with as either a glamour log (gear is disposed of, but forever re-usable for glamour) or stored (like the armoire does already for special gear.) Since you can't sell stuff you've already worn there is no risk of accidentally selling it on the market.

Like SE has plenty of options for inventory if they just don't put the inventory space on the player. We don't necessarily need a "bank" per se, but a permanently unlockable means of off-character storage is preferred to just throwing things away. We may not all be pack-rats, but we also value our time and don't wish to go hunting for some types of gear again once we have it.

I know what it was like at 1.0, and they had a search and labeled wards later. I actually prefer it because to me it was real nice to sit next to your retainer, and exchange items without effecting it's listing on the .. boards? item search? whatever you want to call it. Along with having a heather economy then 2.0 + ever has known. This was also aided on the fact crafters can repair other people gear, increasing interactions of people.

It was also nice to show them to people, they reawaken this with housing but as far as FC that makes things limited. Personal housing is nice for this though. What I was saying is to get rid of them selling item completely, storing items completely (unless they make an exception for on plot housing just to be able sell items there) Making their purpose just ventures mainly. Just make a bank space like every other game in existence and selling more space for the bank like every other game in existence, while you list stuff on the AH like every other game in existence so you are not dealing with slow af menus and other useless menu bloat because something that had a purpose in 1.0 no longer applies.

[ReplicaX]

while you list stuff on the AH like every other game in existence so you are not dealing with slow af menus and other useless menu bloat because something that had a purpose in 1.0 no longer applies.

You mean like the other SE FF MMO that has been doing it like this since 2002 which these "other games" copied from?

[Lycieus]

You mean like the other SE FF MMO that has been doing it like this since 2002 which these "other games" copied from?

I used to think FFXI was awful, but the longer I've had to hear about it, the more I start to think it's a better FF MMO.

[Niwashi]

It would be much harder to fix the glamour system overall if they keep trying to build features within the existing system. As intense as my inventory problems are (and they are horrible - I did make that post earlier about having little reason to play presently because I have no more room for things), I would be willing to wait the extra months it might take to get a fully revamped system, because it would mean that all components would work seamlessly together and result in an all-around better experience.

But the glamour log isn't really part of the glamour system, though it would interact with it. It's more akin to inventory or the armoire or any of the game's assorted logs and achievement records. It's simply a way to store a record of what gear appearances you can use. HOW those appearances are then used is a separate matter.

Trying to add the one feature while also revamping the other at the same time would most likely just make it harder than if they did one and then later the other. It's why major features are often (when feasible) broken down into discrete pieces that can be worked on separately. If you want to regard the glamour log as part of a glamour system revamp, then it would likely be the initial step to pave the way for the rest of the work.

[Shurrikhan]

But the glamour log isn't really part of the glamour system, though it would interact with it. It's more akin to inventory or the armoire or any of the game's assorted logs and achievement records. It's simply a way to store a record of what gear appearances you can use. HOW those appearances are then used is a separate matter.

Trying to add the one feature while also revamping the other at the same time would most likely just make it harder than if they did one and then later the other. It's why major features are often (when feasible) broken down into discrete pieces that can be worked on separately. If you want to regard the glamour log as part of a glamour system revamp, then it would likely be the initial step to pave the way for the rest of the work.

While I, too, like Naunet, tend to prefer a full revision, or a generational upgrade so to speak over a smaller composite ones, I have to agree in this case. Adding a glamour storage bank neither needs to nor should be anything complex or integral. It simply adds a bank of alike to single-point achievements by which an appearance is known or is not. The glamour system can work any which way in the meantime, before, or after, and it ought to have no effect on the glamour storage system's primary functionality.

[Shurrikhan]

I know what it was like at 1.0, and they had a search and labeled wards later. I actually prefer it because to me it was real nice to sit next to your retainer, and exchange items without effecting it's listing on the .. boards? item search? whatever you want to call it. Along with having a heather economy then 2.0 + ever has known. This was also aided on the fact crafters can repair other people gear, increasing interactions of people.

It was also nice to show them to people, they reawaken this with housing but as far as FC that makes things limited. Personal housing is nice for this though. What I was saying is to get rid of them selling item completely, storing items completely (unless they make an exception for on plot housing just to be able sell items there) Making their purpose just ventures mainly. Just make a bank space like every other game in existence and selling more space for the bank like every other game in existence, while you list stuff on the AH like every other game in existence so you are not dealing with slow af menus and other useless menu bloat because something that had a purpose in 1.0 no longer applies.

One of my main interests at this point is see how we might reduce:
1. Server information load, be that at all times or on demand
2. Client information bottlenecks/delays, such as in accessing retainers, NPCs, market boards, etc.

Usually the more that is split off into a separate module of data, the less continuous information seems to be demanded from the server, but alternatively, the more times we have to load modular data, the more often it seems to diminish the player experience (in regard to menus, etc.), especially for those with worse connections.

For instance, one small advantage, at least, of retainers is that they split off information into modules, such that the massive number of inventory slots they carry are accessed only on demand. I've no idea, however, how much additional information, proportionately, we're loading in each time we summon a retainer—at the least there's appearance data, name, class, level, gear, and its shop. Whatever the percentage though, the answer to "does this increase to uniqueness warrant the delay present in accessing these functions (bank, auction house, bonus loot gatherer, mannequin-ish-thing) compared to if they had been separated?" will still vary from player to player.

I'd like to hope that auction houses would be better in some broad regard than retainer menus, but to be honest, there are a whole lot more retainer bells. Unless we go back to that point (memory check, please) in 1.x where one could instantly add an inventory item to their sell list (though technically through a retainer, and to separate city market boards) from anywhere within a city via just a right click, or the like, the change would likely have more people in uproar about the lost convenience than praising any of its benefits.

My only real two cents are that if XIV wants to make something out of retainers, they should do so in a way that satisfies players as more than just a conglomerate of other functions. Either the whole must be far greater than the sum of parts, or there needs to be something altogether different and fulfilling added. In 1.x I saw suggestions along the lines of "umm, can't I just give a linkpearl to my retainer and have them look up marketplace items for me?" or other QoL changes for added secretarial value. That might be a decent place to start.

/seeking the opinions of knowledgeable people in regard to reaching a good balance, if they're even ever really mutually exclusive, between server load and client information delays.