#DeleteSmn aka "Here's where you can shove your Bahamut" thread

[Kaurie]

If you're still worried about Summoner, give this a read. http://docs.google.com/document/d/1J...1thqLy3yO2N9A/

Bane was the only real nerf to the job. 4.0 bane is still better than 2.0 bane though

Without the drop in potency per extended mob, Bane is already nerfed ~30% simply due to DoTs being 80 potency vs 110 potency.

The only real nerf.. so a 50% nerf in Shadowflare isn't a nerf? How about require procs to have 200 potency ruins? How about 150 potency per Ruin III's? How about loss of Raging Strikes? How about no DWT'd festers? How about Garuda's attack potency dropping? How about the loss of Spur?

While the new stuff might make up for things, it's not looking good on paper. I'm curious to see what it all looks like live in a couple of weeks.

Read some more of that link. I only got a bit of the way down and had enough.

First, he defends a Ruin 3 nerf by saying it's easier for people. He is right, it is easier for people to use, and that's good. However, the nerf aspect is not good. We should be raising the DPS floor, not sinking the ceiling. That has major balance implications.

Second, he speaks about DoT potency and ignores taking into account buffing DoTs + Contagion, and Tri-Disaster. This also ignores bane.

[Neophyte]

Yeah and that along with reading Hai Hais lil analysis is something i'm processing now, it seems fairly sound. I still will say I am partially not 100% on Fester's text being incorrect, given there is still info and variables like weights and gear that i feel are not being taken into account, that will have to be found out during launch, but i'm not going to get into that again. I'm just going to wait it out now and burn out during EA under the guise that 200 is the new 300.

There is no other explanation of Fester being 33% stronger than Painflare within the same GCD on a dummy without group members than it being of 33% higher potency than painflare. The screenshot of the DOC are within 0,5ish seconds taken from MrHappy hitting a dummy with Fester+Painflare.

[alimdia]

snip

Don't forget Garuda has a mini foe requiem as well.

So there's a redistribution of SMN damage and people want to call it a nerf...

Thank you for the spreadsheet too!

@Kaurie

You should read the whole thing, what people here aren't taking into consideration are the freed up GCDs from the increase of DoT duration and the fact that shadowflare doesn't use a GCD anymore, the changes to DWT and tri-d make it so you have to use dots way less often as well, freeing up those two GCDs (previously 3 gcds).

[SendohJin]

First, he defends a Ruin 3 nerf by saying it's easier for people. He is right, it is easier for people to use, and that's good. However, the nerf aspect is not good. We should be raising the DPS floor, not sinking the ceiling. That has major balance implications.

you don't know the balance implications till we start figuring out what numbers all the other DPS jobs are going to put out. SMN lost a DoT, DRG lost a DoT, MNK lost a DoT, NIN lost a DoT, WAR lost a DoT, DRK lost a DoT. RDM is brand new.

so unless you're going to say all raids are going to be all BLMs all the time we don't really know anything right now. anything super glaring they have the time from early access to when Savage gets released to patch.

[Silverquick]

Its laughable how SMNs are complaining at how the job is progressing toward being a summoner as opposed to a DoT mage.

Well being that you have to level Arcanist in order to even become a Summoner...

Obviously nerfing all the old Arcanist stuff it takes to get there... makes it pretty tough to even become a Summoner in the first place.

But I digress, there's more than just that. We also have to be level synced for things... and now throw out all that "good" stuff at level 70... and replace it with all the stuff that is nerfed... (or was removed)

And surprise... what do you think happens?

The job will be absolute hell to play at anything other than level 70.

[Kaurie]

@Kaurie

You should read the whole thing, what people here aren't taking into consideration are the freed up GCDs from the increase of DoT duration and the fact that shadowflare doesn't use a GCD anymore, the changes to DWT and tri-d make it so you have to use dots way less often as well, freeing up those two GCDs (previously 3 gcds).

I just got bored of reading it. It was unnecessarily long and condescending, while being somewhat incorrect. I understood that he was getting at added GCD's. His math was off though, as he did not take into account buffs + contagion.

I think it's too complex to say 100%, and we'll just have to wait and see how it all balances out. I am not exclaiming the sky is falling, but I am definitely concerned over SMN's viability. I am especially more concerned after watching some of the other DPS's videos.

One thing that was recently pointed out to me is that Shadowflare is actually 15s, not 30s now. So that saw a 75% nerf. While the tooltips all show 30s, the video clearly had it at 15s.

you don't know the balance implications till we start figuring out what numbers all the other DPS jobs are going to put out. SMN lost a DoT, DRG lost a DoT, MNK lost a DoT, NIN lost a DoT, WAR lost a DoT, DRK lost a DoT. RDM is brand new.

so unless you're going to say all raids are going to be all BLMs all the time we don't really know anything right now. anything super glaring they have the time from early access to when Savage gets released to patch.

I agree, we don't that's why I added that, "
While the new stuff might make up for things, it's not looking good on paper. I'm curious to see what it all looks like live in a couple of weeks."

[Greedalox]

Well being that you have to level Arcanist in order to even become a Summoner...

I think he's remarking about how SMN's have always been rather loud and vocal in how they're a glorified Affliction Warlock instead of a summoner, and now that the steps are being had to switch that up, people are complaining- Which is kind of funny.

Viability is always a concern for a class and I don't think he's questioning that.

[Silverquick]

I think he's remarking about how SMN's have always been rather loud and vocal in how they're a glorified Affliction Warlock instead of a summoner, and now that the steps are being had to switch that up, people are complaining- Which is kind of funny.

Viability is always a concern for a class and I don't think he's questioning that.

Ahh I see...

[Esper]

If only one of those changes could be the change from a book to a cute primal dolls to cuddle...

[Ayer2015]

Well being that you have to level Arcanist in order to even become a Summoner...

Obviously nerfing all the old Arcanist stuff it takes to get there... makes it pretty tough to even become a Summoner in the first place.

But I digress, there's more than just that. We also have to be level synced for things... and now throw out all that "good" stuff at level 70... and replace it with all the stuff that is nerfed... (or was removed)

And surprise... what do you think happens?

The job will be absolute hell to play at anything other than level 70.

Being a little over dramatic are we. Non-raid content doesn't exactly require a high skill level, or even full utilization of skill sets available.