#DeleteSmn aka "Here's where you can shove your Bahamut" thread

[TSLsmokey]

The change is that the passive skill that was needed to raise during combat was removed. But Raise changed to be directly usable in combat anyway.
Swiftcast is still there too.

The passive skill to raise was a WHM one to my knowledge, the ACN/SMN res was one that could be used for combat raise without a passive trait. Unless they're redesigning it to require a trait, you should still be able to do a combat res with it.

[Fyce]

The passive skill to raise was a WHM one to my knowledge, the ACN/SMN res was one that could be used for combat raise without a passive trait. Unless they're redesigning it to require a trait, you should still be able to do a combat res with it.

Oh, right, I was thinking about CNJ. My bad.
However, for ACN, I don't see a trait for Resurrection. It just went down to Lv.18 instead of 22.

[Neophyte]

saw the vids and the 5k (5599 base standard to show i was paying attention and paused each time fester was applied with just the two dots to jot down), so show me where it is an upgrade compared to our current 300 pot with just fester and the three dots, where that 5k base is currently already doable.


Which again, how is this an upgrade? Painflare aside. I'm trying to really grasp where people come up with this 'upgrade' concept where as what is shown hardly constitutes it. Given the gear used and stats applied. Not trying to argue, but to me, someone that would prefer to use what tools are currently at hand to make comparisons, even with the small bit of time left, would like to try and understand this a lot more.

E: ***, annnnnd now i see it, FML OMZ, i'll apologize and hang myself now for being blinded and over hyper analyzing.

If I had to guess, I think the upgrade of our dps comes out of this:

Per 2 Minutes you get to cast (depends on actual rotation, so i can't tell exactly) 2-4 DoT Spells max. and (with 2,4s GCD) about 46-48 ruin1/ruin2/ruin3/drain/ruin4 (depending on needed Movement+Weaves/Proc/MP reserve/3D-Buff and/or DWT). On about 8 GCDS additional 120(?) pot form Bahamut + 2 additional Deathflares (did they have bigger Pot as well?).
DWT got proplonged by 1-2s, so less Spellspeed needed for 6x Ruin3, esp. since you don't need Swiftcast for Shadowflare, which means more Crit/Directhit for me I guess.
Battle Lit without a BRD, idk the CD.
By now you cast, idk, 14 DoTs per 2 minutes, counting Shadowflare, so with the MP you save alone from that means bigger Ruin3 ratio.

For me that sounds like a single target boost, forget the 50 pot on ruin3 (which now get's transformed to ruin4 occasionally anyway, which lead to higher count of Ruin3s in comparision), the 30 pot on tick and yes, even the 250 pot of Shadowflare per minute (or got pot raised? idk). Above sounds pretty big. Yeah, Aetherflow got nerfed (saw it only give 10% of max. MP), but Drain is a no-dps-loss ability in some occasions and you also have a optional SoS.

I don't bother with AoE now, because there are to many dependencies, like how useful is a 30s DoT on big add groups, if you can use 3x Painflare and enter DWT within 15s, esp. if it's the 2nd add group and you have Bahamut up.

[Silverquick]

Well from my perspective...

While I think its possible the Fester tooltip was a typo... but the rest of the stuff definitely wasn't.

This is a huge mega nerf in my opinion.

While its true we will have to wait to find out, to be honest unless something drastically changes... its not really looking good for SMN or the job you level to get there (Arcanist).

I am going to have to wait and see because things can definitely change before launch. They did say these tooltips were subject to change or may be inaccurate....... but honestly I already have one foot out the door to either BLM or RDM.

I do not want to play a broken class... that is not fun at all.

I loved this job, and it was working just fine... but we'll see if that continues.

If they decided to get cute and broke it... well then, there's no reason for me or anyone else to play it.

[LunarEmerald]

If you're still worried about Summoner, give this a read. http://docs.google.com/document/d/1J...1thqLy3yO2N9A/

Bane was the only real nerf to the job. 4.0 bane is still better than 2.0 bane though

[Silverquick]

If you're still worried about Summoner, give this a read. http://docs.google.com/document/d/1J...1thqLy3yO2N9A/

Bane was the only real nerf to the job. 4.0 bane is still better than 2.0 bane though

Read it, was unimpressed.

[Ayer2015]

Its laughable how SMNs are complaining at how the job is progressing toward being a summoner as opposed to a DoT mage.

[Senliten]

If I had to guess, I think the upgrade of our dps comes out of this:

Per 2 Minutes you get to cast (depends on actual rotation, so i can't tell exactly) 2-4 DoT Spells max. and (with 2,4s GCD) about 46-48 ruin1/ruin2/ruin3/drain/ruin4 (depending on needed Movement+Weaves/Proc/MP reserve/3D-Buff and/or DWT). On about 8 GCDS additional 120(?) pot form Bahamut + 2 additional Deathflares (did they have bigger Pot as well?).
DWT got proplonged by 1-2s, so less Spellspeed needed for 6x Ruin3, esp. since you don't need Swiftcast for Shadowflare, which means more Crit/Directhit for me I guess.
Battle Lit without a BRD, idk the CD.
By now you cast, idk, 14 DoTs per 2 minutes, counting Shadowflare, so with the MP you save alone from that means bigger Ruin3 ratio.

For me that sounds like a single target boost, forget the 50 pot on ruin3 (which now get's transformed to ruin4 occasionally anyway, which lead to higher count of Ruin3s in comparision), the 30 pot on tick and yes, even the 250 pot of Shadowflare per minute (or got pot raised? idk). Above sounds pretty big. Yeah, Aetherflow got nerfed (saw it only give 10% of max. MP), but Drain is a no-dps-loss ability in some occasions and you also have a optional SoS.

I don't bother with AoE now, because there are to many dependencies, like how useful is a 30s DoT on big add groups, if you can use 3x Painflare and enter DWT within 15s, esp. if it's the 2nd add group and you have Bahamut up.

Yeah and that along with reading Hai Hais lil analysis is something i'm processing now, it seems fairly sound. I still will say I am partially not 100% on Fester's text being incorrect, given there is still info and variables like weights and gear that i feel are not being taken into account, that will have to be found out during launch, but i'm not going to get into that again. I'm just going to wait it out now and burn out during EA under the guise that 200 is the new 300.

[SendohJin]

I hate the way Square-enix has taken summoner. I like it the way it is now. Why fix something that isn't broken.

if this forum is to be believed you're definitely in the minority. most people believed SMN was broken (and it probably always will be missing Ramuh, Shiva, Leviathan).

[Sushikins]

If you're still worried about Summoner, give this a read. http://docs.google.com/document/d/1J...1thqLy3yO2N9A/

Bane was the only real nerf to the job. 4.0 bane is still better than 2.0 bane though

This just such a great job of breaking down why many of these changes will ultimately work out for this job. I know it's not the direction some wanted for SMN, and by all accounts we're finally moving away from DoTs and more into damage from Pets/Ruin, but it's not the job kill many are making it out to be. I'll be sticking with it for sure, I've stuck with Summoner since 2.0, even through the lean times of 2.4/2.5 when people abandoned it en masse, and I really can't wait to get my hands on 4.x SMN.