#DeleteSmn aka "Here's where you can shove your Bahamut" thread

[Neophyte]

Releasing all these weird datacenter / game-play changes áfter nearly everyone pre-ordered the expansion....
Peculiar, very, very peculiar.

You can cancel your preorder. Back in HW BRDs only saw they got Minuett and what it meant to their rotation after patch notes went live.


Seriously. Even after a swift glance over the new abilities the average pot/minute has likely been raised, at least for single target., esp. if Fester potency is a typo.

Yes, Ruin3 got nerfed by 25%. But you also do 25% more ruins now. And some of them are strong as before (called Ruin4), while others have reduced potency but also new buffs to enhance them.
Also there is no situation where you really gonna use an 80 pot Ruin. Not a single one.
It's either 88 pot cast (because of 3D), it's 150 pot cast (because u have enough mp to use ruin3), it's 100 pot cast (if you have to weave something in and use R2), it's 200 pot cast if Ruin4 procs or it's 80 pot rolebased cast (but with MP regen effect). No one will use unbuffed 80 pot Ruin1.

[The_Shang]

I'm not sure how I feel about these changes tbh. While it all seems really interesting to toy around with, I fear that SMN's might be what MCH's were throughout HW (that being the laughingstock of the dps jobs and least played job overall).

I will definitely play SMN in the future, as it is my main right now (got the completed Lux relic and all, along with being fully geared in 270's). Depending on how the changes feel for me though, I'm not sure if it'll stay my main.

[Anyan]

if you just fear change in general... maybe some personal issues need to be worked out? Every class got their DoTs consolidated or removed to an extent this wasn't a targeted attack at summoner

I don't fear change in general. I have never said this was an attack on summoners. Wtf are on about? What I fear isn't the change in itself, it's how the job will play and feel. It looks to me like it will play very differently, and I love how it plays now. My main concern isn't the dps because that's something that can be tweaked and will most likely be tweaked over the course of the expansion on all jobs. But the likelihood that they'd all of a sudden would to a 180 and go back to how it plays now is close to nil. So if I end up disliking summoner after this change the job will be dead to me. Is that an unreasonable worry to you? If it is then I don't think there's any point for us to discuss this issue further.

I'm not here to be liked , I'm here to be honest regardless if you like it or not. Seeing all this posts with mathematic schemes , calculations etc etc are just ridiculous

I can tell you're not here to be liked. One can be honest without being a selfish, condescending a-hole but if this is how you enjoy talking to people then go right ahead. I'm just being honest back. Mathematic schemes? You do know what all our rotations that we use now to put out the best dps were calculated right? People aren't scheming, they're trying to figure out the jobs based on the info we've got. Theorycrafting. Nothing pathetic about that.

[Khalithar]

If you not happy how the class feels after HAVING TESTED IT well you are more than welcome to comeback and post you results and suggestions. Right now it's pathetic people going thru mathematics like this game really needs it.

I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume you're not insinuating how something feels is more important than how the numbers play out. I will grant that something being fun and intuitive matters but if the numbers are under par than it's an issue. If your favorite thing to play was lots of fun but only half as effective as other stuff, that's not ok.

All an mmo is, is a number generator with a fancy ui. Yes the game absolutely needs mathematics. That's what's nice about numbers, numbers don't lie. If you think people shouldn't be calculating and theorycrafting to figure out what's most effective? I don't even know what to say to that.

[Mature]

I can tell you're not here to be liked. One can be honest without being a selfish, condescending a-hole.

You do realise people in this thread aren't trying to figure out the best rotation right? The majority are moaning about the changes and how their dps will suck and among all other nonsense they crying over it. Nothing selfish telling people things like they are, some just don't like people being brutally honest. Simple as that.

I cannot get into rotation information or how things work until I ACTUALLY tested it. It\'s like people (some) here have already determined that SMN will suck because of this and that and that....without even put their hands on it...only based on their "calculations" just ridiculous

Just an example, people arguing about why people arent pulling good DPS on raid or in certain instances... Well first you need to learn the fight so you can adjust your rotation and then the DPS damage will come on naturally. But HOW can you pull damage if you haven't learnt the fight. This is the same escenario , HOW can people argue about something they havent tried or done?

No one cares about their calculations , some think that it makes them look smarter....

[Mature]

I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume you're not insinuating how something feels is more important than how the numbers play out. I will grant that something being fun and intuitive matters but if the numbers are under par than it's an issue. If your favorite thing to play was lots of fun but only half as effective as other stuff, that's not ok.

All an mmo is, is a number generator with a fancy ui. Yes the game absolutely needs mathematics. That's what's nice about numbers, numbers don't lie. If you think people shouldn't be calculating and theorycrafting to figure out what's most effective? I don't even know what to say to that.

You missing the point entirely. If 4.0 was here as in right now numbers wouldn't be an issues and are certainly needed sometimes. BUT people are telling you that SMN has gone down hill ... Without even tested the class....

It seems to me some just got too much time on their hands

[Neophyte]

All an mmo is, is a number generator with a fancy ui. Yes the game absolutely needs mathematics. That's what's nice about numbers, numbers don't lie. If you think people shouldn't be calculating and theorycrafting to figure out what's most effective? I don't even know what to say to that.

Because people only compare single skills and add their things up:

DoTs have lost x pot per tick might be a true statement. Ruin3 have lost 50 potency is a true statement. But this is barely "math".
If we lost overall dps is totally not clear.

Where are all the "mathematicans" factoring in that our ratio DoTs:Ruins has changed to 0-2 DoTs / 22-24 RuinXs per minute with all the RNG and not RNG buffs to the ruins?
Did they factor in that because of no Shadowflare and way less DoTs (which are the most expensive spells beside Ruin3) and the no-dps-loss mp regen, that the ratio of Ruin3/Ruin1 might still be the same or even better than now?
Do they factor in the mulitplicativ effect of stacked buffs like DWT+3D-Buff+Contagion-Buff?

[Natsuno]

You missing the point entirely. If 4.0 was here as in right now numbers wouldn't be an issues and are certainly needed sometimes. BUT people are telling you that SMN has gone down hill ... Without even tested the class....

It seems to me some just got too much time on their hands

Just to add to this, we do not have a open/closed public ptr/beta build to test out for ourselves. What we do have is what is probably are incomplete media release build videos. Someone has already pointed out at least one potential tool tip error on a spell. What else could be incorrect?

Sure, it's something for the theory crafters to sink their teeth into until SB goes live, but by no means should it be taken as gospel. If you're into theory crafting then sure, knock yourselves out. I (and others) will just be taking anything said with a pinch of salt.

Edit: I just found this over on reddit. I dunno if I skimmed over it being mentioned in this thread or not.

I think I'll you peeps to it either way, as nothing seems 100% atm.

[Anyan]

You do realise people in this thread aren't trying to figure out the best rotation right? The majority are moaning about the changes and how their dps will suck and among all other nonsense they crying over it. Nothing selfish telling people things like they are, some just don't like people being brutally honest. Simple as that.
No one cares about their calculations , some think that it makes them look smarter....

How do you know what they're trying to do? You can take a guess but you don't know. The reason I'm calling you selfish is your total lack of understanding or care that other people feel worry instead of excitement like you are. WHY is it reasonable for you to be exited about something you haven't tried out but it's pathetic to feel the opposite?
No one cares? Obviously there are people who care or else you wouldn't be here slinging insults all over the place because someone doesn't think like you do.
Theorycrafting is something that some people enjoy, and many of them are really freaking good at it. What's wrong with them playing around with numbers and what info we have now and discussing it among themselves while raising concerns about some of it?
Even if some were only doing it to have something to complain about then what about you? All you are doing is complaining about people complaining.

This is not just directed at you:
Both sides are in the same spot right now. None of us knows how it will turn out in the end. Excitement or worry are both just as valid in this scenario.

[Deufont]

I don't think SMN will suck, I just think it will be boring to play after these changes. The rotation seems real simple compared to what it is now.

I guess that's what they were going for but... Eh. Seems like they over simplified it to me.