#DeleteSmn aka "Here's where you can shove your Bahamut" thread

[kikix12]

good for you. so, how was it like playing 4.0's summoner; using it rotation or 2? i'm guessing you were invited to try them out hands-on?
and i guess using 2 demi-bahamut akh morn + constant deathlares for aoe aren't enough, you just saw lower potency values and you're already whining. if you're just gonna try being know-it-all, atleast do it right.

There is such a thing as "educated guess". It comes from stuff like seeing the tooltips and doing the math and whatnot. There are things you need to play to know, and there are things you just need to hear about/see to know.

If you are told that the speed limit on part of the road you take to work every day gets reduced by 30%, with the only bonus of there being a new road nearing the end of that trip that have roughly the same length as the original one but splits the congestion, then you know that in the end you'll take more time to reach your work place without even going through it.

Majority of the summoners tools got reduced in effect. In return, they got Demi-Bahamut which you won't even be able to use in every other pull due to requirements to trigger it, some damage buffs that are not only not up permanently (duh!) but even when they ARE up don't make up for the losses (PS: Scholars pet cannot do anything when tethered, chances are that Summoners equivalent is the same) and a 15% chance of being able to cast buffed up ruin that still only reaches the current level of a spammable version (even if costly).

And no, the two dots total potencies are at 30sec operation, so even if they are "only" 40 behind total potencies of Bio, Bio II and Miasma currently, the potency lost is significantly higher, since in those 30sec, Bio II would tick three to four more times (120-160 potency more) and Miasma would tick one to two times more (35 or 70 potency lost), depending on whether the caster clips them or not. That's an additional 155 to whooping 230 potency lost on TOP of the 40 difference from total. Yep, that's why DoT-based DPS have it rough. They can't just cast their DoT whenever and say that they increased the damage output. The duration matters...

[Dyvid]

After watching different SMN videos I believe Fester is a tooltip mistake. Ruin III landed for around 3000ish, Painflare was 3300ish, and Fester was hitting for 5500ish.

Honestly the overall changes aren't that different from how the community plays now. They use Garuda specifically to extend DoTs so they spam more ruin. 4.0 gives a hard 30s DoT rotation with easier management so you can spam ruin. The key thing though is SE is quietly trying to nerf speed runs again. SMN saw a huge buff to Bane from infecting only 3 target (remember those day) to infecting everything. Now they are swinging back the other way and wanting to nerf dungeon runs again.

[Khalithar]

can you guys ever think of a time a class was changed just because of some pre-expansion whining?.

In WoW, the devs allow players beta access and share absolutely every bit of data with the players from the combat calculations to the formulas for every attack in the game. They are also (generally) good about hearing what players have to say if something is undertuned or otherwise clunky or hard to use.

In the wrath expansion a few years ago, one build for the death knight was really bad and they drastically overbuffed it as a result and made it completely different to how it was. I still think blizzard's utter and complete transparency with the combat system is something the devs of this game need to adopt.

[Khalithar]

Can't edit on mobile. The death knight example was to show that yes things can change. The overbuff of the death knight I mentioned was a bit much yes but that was due to a lack of time at the end where they realized the build was drastically underpowered (at the time).

[Neophyte]

We get 30s of Ruin buff *10% every minute (through 3D), we get 25% more ruin casts into a minute without losing DoTs and Ruin2 got lifted a bit for the inevitable weave.

~18 ruin/ruin2/ruin3 per minute now, let's say 6*80+12*200 = 2880 per minute. Now we get ~24 ruin/ruin3 per minute, which would maybe be 12*80+12*150 = 2720. So not that weaker and that is with a worse ratio of ruin/ruin3 and without the Ruin4 and without the 30s ruin buff you get every minute.
And ruin3 use is even more likely because you can regain mp without dps loss if you use the mp drain GCD when no ruin buffs are up, so if we apply that same ratio as for the first case we look at 8*80+16*150 = 3040 pot with every 80 pot attack either buffed by 10%, being an 200 pot Ruin4 or refreshing your mp if both former not apply.

So pls... either calculate it right (with only half the data, lol) or just leave it be.

[Mature]

People panicking and complaining about something that we haven't even tried...

Wait for the early access and test it yourself. I main SMN and personally think people are just like whining for the sake of it. I CANNOT WAIT to put my hands on it and see how it goes. People posting stupid and ridiculous calculation about what's gonna happen etc etc WHO CARES just go and play the class and get your own conclusions once the game is out. If you not happy how the class feels after HAVING TESTED IT well you are more than welcome to comeback and post you results and suggestions. Right now it's pathetic people going thru mathematics like this game really needs it. It doesn't make u look more experience by doing it.

[Anyan]

Mature
It's good that you're excited but I think you're being rather rude when addressing those who are feeling distressed right now. I can't help but wonder if your attitude would have been different if you were the one who disliked what you saw.

edit to add, I'm not saying this is at all what will happen but the last time I experienced something like this was with three of my main classes in WoW, Warlock, Death Knight, and Hunter when WoD came out. It ended up in me quitting the game I had loved for seven years. That's why I worry.

[eschaton]

Releasing all these weird datacenter / game-play changes áfter nearly everyone pre-ordered the expansion....
Peculiar, very, very peculiar.

[Nihility]

Mature
It's good that you're excited but I think you're being rather rude when addressing those who are feeling distressed right now. I can't help but wonder if your attitude would have been different if you were the one who disliked what you saw.

edit to add, I'm not saying this is at all what will happen but the last time I experienced something like this was with three of my main classes in WoW, Warlock, Death Knight, and Hunter when WoD came out. It ended up in me quitting the game I had loved for seven years. That's why I worry.

It's pretty obvious all they did was shift some of the output to ruin from the DoTs so it's more than just a nothing better to do button and give you a super pet for 20s a minute.
His wording is just "an action" so he should be shockwaving all your ruins, aetherflow skills, dot refreshes, and anything else you might have
and there's nothing that states enkindle bahamut dismisses him so... 2 ahk morn per cycle?

if you just fear change in general... maybe some personal issues need to be worked out? Every class got their DoTs consolidated or removed to an extent this wasn't a targeted attack at summoner

[Mature]

Mature
It's good that you're excited but I think you're being rather rude when addressing those who are feeling distressed right now. I can't help but wonder if your attitude would have been different if you were the one who disliked what you saw.

I'm not here to be liked , I'm here to be honest regardless if you like it or not. Seeing all this posts with mathematic schemes , calculations etc etc are just ridiculous and cringe when the game is not even out and people cry over it. Do you think people actually care for for the "calculations" and mathematical problems? People will scroll it down and carry on complaining about something that is not even out yet....

Crying over something is not even tested by us and ARGUING over who's got the better statics about is Pathetic