#DeleteSmn aka "Here's where you can shove your Bahamut" thread

[Adventica6]

Unless you main a Smn you have no idea what you are talking about, this consolidation of nearly everything is a dramatic dps loss in all situations for the sake of "dumbing down".

[Nerisu]

Ruin 1 is the same potency and Ruin IV is now the damage our Ruin III used to be. Still a nerf.

2 dots were buffed to 40 potency per or 80 potency per tic. Compare that to our 3 dots doing 110 potency per tic. Still a nerf

The other points you are right about but not enough to make up for our losses.

3.0 RUINS
Ruin = 80 potency
Ruin II = 80 potency
Ruin III = 200 potency

4.0 RUINS
Ruin = 10080 potency
Ruin II = 100 potency
Ruin III = 150 potency
Ruin IV = 200(220) potency

3.0 DOTS
Bio II = 350 potency
Miasma = 300 potency
Bio = 240 potency
Total = 890 potency

4.0 DOTS
Bio III = 400 potency
Miasma III = 450 potency
Total = 850 potency

But then there's this:

3.0 TRAITS
Int +2
Int +4
Dmg +10%
Int +6
Dmg +30%
Total Int = 12

4.0 TRAITS
Int +8
Dmg/PetDmg +10%
Int +16
Dmg/PetDmg +30%
Int +24
Total Int = 48

20 potency from Ruin III went to Ruin/Ruin II and the remaining 30 potency might have went to the added Int trait. It's probably the same for the DoT potencies. Need someone who is well versed with the stat weights to know if the added Int is enough to compensate for the lower potencies.

EDIT: Actually never mind the 100 potency Ruin, different sources have different numbers or I might have confused Ruin II's new potency with Ruin's. Also, take note that the 40% pet damage buff of Spur will become permanent through traits.

[Skyrior]

In no serious opener would you ever use Aetherflow inside Dreadwyrm Trance, so that change is meaningless. (You wouldn't use it inside DT outside of your opener anyways)

Otherwise, I sorta agree with your points.

[Vhailor]

Does anyone else find it ridiculous that we're having to debate whether a job at 70, ability-wise, is LESS POTENT than the current job at 60 is? All things considered, 10 levels should result in a clear-cut power boost. SE should never have engineered a situation in which a job at 60 is worsened upon release of 4.0. Period. That should have been Priority Number One.

Instead, we've got SMN, WHM, and possibly others, who are suffering clear-cut nerfs upon the release of 4.0, and are arguably just getting back to an equivalent ability strength by level 70. That's f*cking absurd, unnecessary, and bad game design. All we should have been talking about was whether the new post-60 abilities added roughly equivalent bonuses across all jobs.

[Airget]

To be honest I think with both Whm and Smn we should wait and see how the jobs come out. It's still too early to go grab our pitchforks and torches on something only a few people actually got their hands on.

Ya, the more I look into it, the more I see certain jobs are given different responsibilities compared to others. The reality is you are no longer Master of your max potential DPS, a lot of jobs now have NIN level of manipulation when it comes to enhancing DPS. A NIN can target a single enemy and increase dmg they take for 10 seconds, other jobs like MNK/DRG/SMN/BRD/ have the potential to augment those around them based on certain abilities they have access to. MCH/BLM/SAM appear to be heavy focused on DPS but I may have missed AOE buffs they can provide to other party members but their abilities seem pretty self contained.

Overall they come off as interesting changes because the synergy between jobs definitely has a lot of room to experiment with to figure out which jobs work best with one another, which job should I give X buff to, how should SMN or BRD time their AOE buffs for the party etc etc.

[Neophyte]

First thing I'm doing is taking fester off my bar. Painflare does the same damage with both dots up in an aoe without fall off. SO there goes bane to. Just gonna hardcast.

What do you do when you want to get into DWT within 20s or faster and not within thirty, when because of a downtime or preparation Aetherflow is back again with you having already 3 stacks? Delaying Aetherflow use by even only 1s is a no-go, because its literally the strongest Cooldown in the whole game (because >thousand potency are gated behind it).

Blasting your stacks now got buffed in relation.
I.e. the opener and some downtimes, esp. add phases followed by almost 30s transistion after that. Gunna keep that AF on CD.

While now I need 20s to do the max. pot of 900 pot, this will go down to 10s for 600 pot. But today if you blast your stacks in 1-2 GcDs you lose almost 40% of the max. 900, while in SB you gonna lose only 10% for going "gonna blast my stacks".

[Skyrior]

What do you do when you want to get into DWT within 20s or faster and not within thirty, when because of a downtime or preparation Aetherflow is back again with you having already 3 stacks? Delaying Aetherflow use by even only 1s is a no-go, because its literally the strongest Cooldown in the whole game (because thousands of potency are gated behind it).

I believe Painflare is buffed to have a 5s CD. So the Lv60 opener can simply be changed from 2p/1f or 1/1/1 to 3p now if so desired.

However,

1. Multiple people have reported that the Fester tooltip seemed erroneous given that we have seen Fester doing much more damage in videos.

2. The Lv70 opener would likely require you to enter Summon Bahamut to catch party buffs ASAP, so you'd want to enter Dreadwyrm Trances even faster than what you do at Lv60, meaning even with a 5s Painflare CD it's still not enough (so you'll have to use 2p/1f anyways).

Not sure if Fester CD is reduced too.

[Nerisu]

Not sure if Fester CD is reduced too.

It's down to 5s too.

[Skyrior]

It's down to 5s too.

That's pretty interesting, with that change there could be openers that attempt to do 3p/3f (for 2 dreadwyrms) to get into Summon Bahamut within 18~22s-ish. Gonna have to play with the game live to see how it plays out.

Also not sure if it's worth getting into Summon Bahamut early to catch party buffs at the expense of aborting DTs with Deathflares early.

[RaizeGraymalkin]

Dear Mods. Can we just get rid of any thread that says "delete 'x' job" please? Thanks.