#DeleteSmn aka "Here's where you can shove your Bahamut" thread

[Vhailor]

Does anyone else find it ridiculous that we're having to debate whether a job at 70, ability-wise, is LESS POTENT than the current job at 60 is? All things considered, 10 levels should result in a clear-cut power boost. SE should never have engineered a situation in which a job at 60 is worsened upon release of 4.0. Period. That should have been Priority Number One.

Instead, we've got SMN, WHM, and possibly others, who are suffering clear-cut nerfs upon the release of 4.0, and are arguably just getting back to an equivalent ability strength by level 70. That's f*cking absurd, unnecessary, and bad game design. All we should have been talking about was whether the new post-60 abilities added roughly equivalent bonuses across all jobs.

[JCharms]

Does anyone else find it ridiculous that we're having to debate whether a job at 70, ability-wise, is LESS POTENT than the current job at 60 is? All things considered, 10 levels should result in a clear-cut power boost. SE should never have engineered a situation in which a job at 60 is worsened upon release of 4.0. Period. That should have been Priority Number One.

Instead, we've got SMN, WHM, and possibly others, who are suffering clear-cut nerfs upon the release of 4.0, and are arguably just getting back to an equivalent ability strength by level 70. That's f*cking absurd, unnecessary, and bad game design.

I take it you must be new to MMO's? Because i've seen this in every game i've played, and that's a lot.
Now I'm not saying its right, wrong or even indifferent to them doing this, but merely pointing out that as games mature, devs will squish stats and skills from time to time as part of long term planning.

[Neophyte]

I still have the impression that if I go in an Alexander savage fight at level 70 with level 60 equip (even with the nerf for my offstat scaling if I'd do that with this 'too low for my level' gear.. 2.4s GCD and 15% crit? QQ)... we gonna have more dps.

With ruin buff of Tridisaster+DWT+Bahamut we look at 300ish pot GCDs. Wih all those party buffs out there, oh bby ×.×
Tridisaster is now way more often available, which means instead of 5-6 dot casts per minute (After Trisaster+Contagion you gonna refresh every DoT once and Bio even twice+2 times Shadowflare) you gonna use... 1-2 and sometimes even less (because at best 2 Tridisaster per minute with 30s DoT time each). So it's already 4-6 ruins more per minute now.
With the mpdrain GCD we can get mp for additional R3 with no dps loss at certain points in a fight (Whenever you'd gonna cast an unbuffed ruin1).

I'm sorry if that ruins your theory.

And I'm sorry for that pun.

[Vhailor]

I take it you must be new to MMO's? Because i've seen this in every game i've played, and that's a lot.
Now I'm not saying its right, wrong or even indifferent to them doing this, but merely pointing out that as games mature, devs will squish stats and skills from time to time as part of long term planning.

Examples such as these have little to do with FFXIV as it currently stands.

You're right in that there are a wide variety of reasons why MMO developers might tweak skills, particularly in ways that decrease player power. For example, numbers might have gotten too large as a result of sh*tty and lazy development practices, so everything gets scaled down to manageable levels (including enemies). Or, perhaps, one or two classes are overly powerful, and therefore are brought back down to earth via a patch, rendering them less powerful than before.

Neither of these situations is remotely comparable to the 4.0 rework. SE has not expressed any desire to tone down overall numbers (and, indeed, based on videos, it looks like numbers will only grow larger in 4.0), nor is there any evidence that the community or SE thinks a particular class is overpowered, except perhaps Warrior and Astrologian. Coupled with the fact that there's a convenient level cap boost available to balance jobs via improving weaker ones rather than bringing down stronger ones, and we are left with my original statement: there is NO reason for SE to have weakened a level 60 job with the introduction of 4.0.

To make it even more absurd, even after the boost of 10 levels, we still have grey areas in regards to whether a job is improved. I challenge you to name a single title in which this has been the case. I've never seen a level cap increase associated with a drop in class power - ever (and yes, I've played a lot of games, including a lot of MMOs). In fact, I've never seen a level cap increase associated with even a roughly lateral set of abilities. They always come with clear-cut upgrades, albeit the upgrades often are not created equal across all classes.

[JCharms]

To make it even more absurd, even after the boost of 10 levels, we still have grey areas in regards to whether a job is improved. I challenge you to name a single title in which this has been the case. I've never seen a level cap increase associated with a drop in class power - ever (and yes, I've played a lot of games, including a lot of MMOs). In fact, I've never seen a level cap increase associated with even a roughly lateral set of abilities. They always come with clear-cut upgrades, albeit the upgrades often are not created equal across all classes.

I understand what you're saying, but without seeing the whole picture, its very hard to say. What will the gear rating be at the high end after 4.0, 350-370ish? and new consumables, as well as different stat behaviour. I think its way too early to claim any sort of downgrade with the little info so far.