Superficial

[ellohwell]

I know this is a troll thread... but I am away from game at the moment so here goes...
Even if 90% of the game is combat and crafting (Which I don't really buy. That may be the case for you but many people play games just for different reasons. i.e. Story, exploring new environments, social aspects, in game fashion)
But even if 90% of the game is as you say... Then that would explain why the 2 biggest overhauls are the server and the graphics engine. 2 things that have an enormous impact on battle, crafting, etc....
If you think they don't, go fight Ifrit
the thing is... one can't be done without the other...
Battle overhaul requires that stats (including stats on gear, hence the gear overhaul), abilities, algorithms and food all get redone. Also server lag can destroy the battle experience. On top of that a battle system lives and dies by it's UI, which is a 3rd thing on the list of the big 5 adjustments for 2.0.
The graphics Engine clearly factors into battle.
And the zone redesign is being seen as a progression of the story....
Now.. Battle is important.... But what is also important is the story, for it is that story that defines what you fight and why you fight it. Once again tying into the battle system
I would go as far as saying no elements are more core to an MMORPG than the server API, UI and graphics engine.
They are perhaps the least superficial things a game can have....
That's like saying molecules or DNA is superficial in the make up of a living thing
That's like saying words are superficial in the writing of a book

Okay, please work on your presentation. I think you have some good objections, but your delivery needs work and is an eyesore. No offence.

Anyways, some bad analogies you made at the end aside, i'll just focus on how you say that stats and food and graphics and story are all really important. I disagree with this conjecture. And the reason for this is because: sure, to the game, yes, these factors are important. But overhauling these aspects won't solve all the issues with combat and crafting, it won't even solve most of them.

I think at heart, the crafting progression system needs a complete overhaul and much less emphasis on RNG.

Presently, the combat system is going back to everquest principles (which historically only arose out of technical limitations), and there is much that needs to be done to cater to contemporary market and overcome the stigma of being a boring game.

I guess it's hard to see my point if you are set in your ways and want to believe in false hype. But whatever. Suit yourselves i guess.

[Aistaraina]

I guess it's hard to see my point if you are set in your ways and want to believe in false hype. But whatever. Suit yourselves i guess.

I guess it's hard for you to see the points of others if you are set in your ways and want to believe the game is falling apart. But whatever. Suit yourself I guess.

[ellohwell]

I guess it's hard for you to see the points of others if you are set in your ways and want to believe the game is falling apart. But whatever. Suit yourself I guess.

What "points of others"? That they are adjusting stats and food? And that crafting recipes are being tweaked?

That's not an objection. That is corroboration of my argument.

[Misteyes]

Fine, I'll take the bait.

I think at heart, the crafting progression system needs a complete overhaul and much less emphasis on RNG.

Only part I agree with.

Combat in XIV is not fundamentally broken. Some things (enmity algorithm, effects of elements, class balance) could use adjustments - and they're getting them, but it's not fundamentally worse than other things on the market. It's fundamentally the same system that's been in every MMORPG since Everquest. Yes, games like Guild Wars 2 and Vindictus are breaking that mold since technology allows them, but that doesn't mean the old system is outdated and should be done away with entirely.

Maybe it's just because I play a healer, but I actually find combat an extremely interactive, nonrandom, strategic experience. The UI needs a significant rework, but hey, it's getting that too!

[ellohwell]

Fine, I'll take the bait.

I'm not baiting anyone. Why is everyone so paranoid, omg.

Only part I agree with.

Well its better than nothing I guess.

Most people on these forums try to tell me that crafting progression is perfect the way it is and could not be RNG-based enough!

Combat in XIV is not fundamentally broken. Some things (enmity algorithm, effects of elements, class balance) could use adjustments - and they're getting them, but it's not fundamentally worse than other things on the market. It's fundamentally the same system that's been in every MMORPG since Everquest. Yes, games like Guild Wars 2 and Vindictus are breaking that mold since technology allows them, but that doesn't mean the old system is outdated and should be done away with entirely.

Maybe it's just because I play a healer, but I actually find combat an extremely interactive, nonrandom, strategic experience. The UI needs a significant rework, but hey, it's getting that too!

So are you saying superficial improvements are enough?

I guess that's what most of you are trying to say even though you guys articulate it in a really roundabout way (and try to hide from your true sentiments).

Maybe there is a point to be made that all games dont have to be like Guild Wars 2 or Blade and Soul, but FFXIV still has nothing to really offer. I feel like it's way too mathematical.

[Answa]

Maybe there is a point to be made that all games dont have to be like Guild Wars 2 or Blade and Soul, but FFXIV still has nothing to really offer. I feel like it's way too mathematical.

Then, PLEASE, by all means, LEAVE, and stop bitching about everything.

[Misteyes]

I want to know what your definition of superficial is. The one I'm operating on is something that affects the look of something without affecting its function or effectiveness.

If I put on a green shirt instead of a gray shirt, that's superficial. If I put on a raincoat instead of a t-shirt, that's not.

I disagree that UI is superficial. If it is, then there's only a superficial difference between Microsoft Word and a remote typewriter where you don't even get to see the page without walking into another room.

I also disagree that the enmity algorithm - which affects strategy by determining what actions are acceptable and what actions are mistakes - is superficial.

I also disagree that class balance is superficial. Bad class balance is a real mood-killer for people who want to play a particular class.

Perhaps you can expand on why it "feels way too mathematical"?

[Preypacer]

Okay, please work on your presentation. I think you have some good objections, but your delivery needs work and is an eyesore. No offence.

Anyways, some bad analogies you made at the end aside, i'll just focus on how you say that stats and food and graphics and story are all really important. I disagree with this conjecture. And the reason for this is because: sure, to the game, yes, these factors are important. But overhauling these aspects won't solve all the issues with combat and crafting, it won't even solve most of them.

Okay, please don't use words unless you know how to use them properly. No offense.

Nothing in his post is an example of conjecture.

However, ironically enough, much of your OP does qualify as conjecture.

I guess it's hard to see my point if you are set in your ways and want to believe in false hype. But whatever. Suit yourselves i guess.

... says the person has repeatedly demonstrated zero tolerance for any opinion that doesn't resemble their own and has responded with unwarranted hostility and condescension numerous times, in many posts, across many threads.

Quaint.

[Rydin]

Okay, please work on your presentation. I think you have some good objections, but your delivery needs work and is an eyesore. No offence.

Anyways, some bad analogies you made at the end aside, i'll just focus on how you say that stats and food and graphics and story are all really important. I disagree with this conjecture. And the reason for this is because: sure, to the game, yes, these factors are important. But overhauling these aspects won't solve all the issues with combat and crafting, it won't even solve most of them.

I think at heart, the crafting progression system needs a complete overhaul and much less emphasis on RNG.

Presently, the combat system is going back to everquest principles (which historically only arose out of technical limitations), and there is much that needs to be done to cater to contemporary market and overcome the stigma of being a boring game.

I guess it's hard to see my point if you are set in your ways and want to believe in false hype. But whatever. Suit yourselves i guess.

You're right... they should not fix the server lag, revamp the limited graphics engine... make the environments aesthetically pleasing... They should only redo the battle system

In a way you really are right though.. a battle system really is the major defining aspect of a game...
Lag can be fixed, graphics can be improved.... But it's not a matter of better or worse
Its a very subjective area
So if you're not happy with the direction of the battle... Then this probably isn't the game for you
And I don't mean that to be rude... I hate when someone has a critique of the game and everyone jumps on them saying "Just quit"
But if you are truly this unhappy with the direction... then maybe thats the best thing for you

Either way, I am comforted by the fact that you wont be able to post here come December

[ellohwell]

You're right... they should not fix the server lag, revamp the limited graphics engine... make the environments aesthetically pleasing... They should only redo the battle system

In a way you really are right though.. a battle system really is the major defining aspect of a game...
Lag can be fixed, graphics can be improved.... But it's not a matter of better or worse
Its a very subjective area
So if you're not happy with the direction of the battle... Then this probably isn't the game for you
And I don't mean that to be rude... I hate when someone has a critique of the game and everyone jumps on them saying "Just quit"
But if you are truly this unhappy with the direction... then maybe thats the best thing for you

Either way, I am comforted by the fact that you wont be able to post here come December

Im pretty sure I never said i wanted them to focus on combat to the exclusion of everything else. And if I did, well "whoops" because I definitely dont even think that!

From yours and most people's tones, it just seems like you're all just defending this game just for the sake of defending it. Blind faith, they call it. "It will be better! I swear!"

But I am confronted by the obvious possibility that it won't be better, certainly this is the case if only minor adjustments are made to the two most fundamental aspects of the game.

On a brighter note, I just read something about combat classes getting combo skills, but I wonder how integral that will be to combat, and how beneficial it will be gameplay wise too.

If you guys wanted to defend this game, maybe you could have tried citing that feature instead of just saying:

"omg the game is going to rock when V2.0 hits. Go quit you nuub."