Superficial

[Molly_Millions]

I had my regular character shown on here, 'til a couple people decided to jump in-game and troll me in there.

Yes, I was actually trolled in-game by a couple people from message forums. I don't know if was from here or from other forums. Apparently some people really can't handle a differing opinion. Or, it was folks whose BS I'd called out (there's so much of it) and they couldn't "get back at me" in the forums without their post being deleted or the account being suspended.

So, in order to play in peace, I removed my character ID from all forums... at least for now. Once they activate subs and those who remain only to troll no longer have access to the game, I'm sure it'll be fine again.

And you don't think the same thing happens to everyone else on here who sticks up for their opinion? For a time, my entire shell got trolled in-game by Raze Sharp and his minions. In the end, his shell booted him because he was too much of a douche and he quit the game, however.

I just think that hiding behind an r1 char so that nobody knows who you are is kinda shady, ya know?

[Alkoun]

Another ellohwell thread that I disagree with.

Isn't this fun?!

[Rydin]

I know this is a troll thread... but I am away from game at the moment so here goes...
Even if 90% of the game is combat and crafting (Which I don't really buy. That may be the case for you but many people play games just for different reasons. i.e. Story, exploring new environments, social aspects, in game fashion)
But even if 90% of the game is as you say... Then that would explain why the 2 biggest overhauls are the server and the graphics engine. 2 things that have an enormous impact on battle, crafting, etc....
If you think they don't, go fight Ifrit
the thing is... one can't be done without the other...
Battle overhaul requires that stats (including stats on gear, hence the gear overhaul), abilities, algorithms and food all get redone. Also server lag can destroy the battle experience. On top of that a battle system lives and dies by it's UI, which is a 3rd thing on the list of the big 5 adjustments for 2.0.
The graphics Engine clearly factors into battle.
And the zone redesign is being seen as a progression of the story....
Now.. Battle is important.... But what is also important is the story, for it is that story that defines what you fight and why you fight it. Once again tying into the battle system
I would go as far as saying no elements are more core to an MMORPG than the server API, UI and graphics engine.
They are perhaps the least superficial things a game can have....
That's like saying molecules or DNA is superficial in the make up of a living thing
That's like saying words are superficial in the writing of a book

[ellohwell]

I know this is a troll thread... but I am away from game at the moment so here goes...
Even if 90% of the game is combat and crafting (Which I don't really buy. That may be the case for you but many people play games just for different reasons. i.e. Story, exploring new environments, social aspects, in game fashion)
But even if 90% of the game is as you say... Then that would explain why the 2 biggest overhauls are the server and the graphics engine. 2 things that have an enormous impact on battle, crafting, etc....
If you think they don't, go fight Ifrit
the thing is... one can't be done without the other...
Battle overhaul requires that stats (including stats on gear, hence the gear overhaul), abilities, algorithms and food all get redone. Also server lag can destroy the battle experience. On top of that a battle system lives and dies by it's UI, which is a 3rd thing on the list of the big 5 adjustments for 2.0.
The graphics Engine clearly factors into battle.
And the zone redesign is being seen as a progression of the story....
Now.. Battle is important.... But what is also important is the story, for it is that story that defines what you fight and why you fight it. Once again tying into the battle system
I would go as far as saying no elements are more core to an MMORPG than the server API, UI and graphics engine.
They are perhaps the least superficial things a game can have....
That's like saying molecules or DNA is superficial in the make up of a living thing
That's like saying words are superficial in the writing of a book

Okay, please work on your presentation. I think you have some good objections, but your delivery needs work and is an eyesore. No offence.

Anyways, some bad analogies you made at the end aside, i'll just focus on how you say that stats and food and graphics and story are all really important. I disagree with this conjecture. And the reason for this is because: sure, to the game, yes, these factors are important. But overhauling these aspects won't solve all the issues with combat and crafting, it won't even solve most of them.

I think at heart, the crafting progression system needs a complete overhaul and much less emphasis on RNG.

Presently, the combat system is going back to everquest principles (which historically only arose out of technical limitations), and there is much that needs to be done to cater to contemporary market and overcome the stigma of being a boring game.

I guess it's hard to see my point if you are set in your ways and want to believe in false hype. But whatever. Suit yourselves i guess.

[Aistaraina]

I guess it's hard to see my point if you are set in your ways and want to believe in false hype. But whatever. Suit yourselves i guess.

I guess it's hard for you to see the points of others if you are set in your ways and want to believe the game is falling apart. But whatever. Suit yourself I guess.

[ellohwell]

I guess it's hard for you to see the points of others if you are set in your ways and want to believe the game is falling apart. But whatever. Suit yourself I guess.

What "points of others"? That they are adjusting stats and food? And that crafting recipes are being tweaked?

That's not an objection. That is corroboration of my argument.

[Misteyes]

Fine, I'll take the bait.

I think at heart, the crafting progression system needs a complete overhaul and much less emphasis on RNG.

Only part I agree with.

Combat in XIV is not fundamentally broken. Some things (enmity algorithm, effects of elements, class balance) could use adjustments - and they're getting them, but it's not fundamentally worse than other things on the market. It's fundamentally the same system that's been in every MMORPG since Everquest. Yes, games like Guild Wars 2 and Vindictus are breaking that mold since technology allows them, but that doesn't mean the old system is outdated and should be done away with entirely.

Maybe it's just because I play a healer, but I actually find combat an extremely interactive, nonrandom, strategic experience. The UI needs a significant rework, but hey, it's getting that too!

[ellohwell]

Fine, I'll take the bait.

I'm not baiting anyone. Why is everyone so paranoid, omg.

Only part I agree with.

Well its better than nothing I guess.

Most people on these forums try to tell me that crafting progression is perfect the way it is and could not be RNG-based enough!

Combat in XIV is not fundamentally broken. Some things (enmity algorithm, effects of elements, class balance) could use adjustments - and they're getting them, but it's not fundamentally worse than other things on the market. It's fundamentally the same system that's been in every MMORPG since Everquest. Yes, games like Guild Wars 2 and Vindictus are breaking that mold since technology allows them, but that doesn't mean the old system is outdated and should be done away with entirely.

Maybe it's just because I play a healer, but I actually find combat an extremely interactive, nonrandom, strategic experience. The UI needs a significant rework, but hey, it's getting that too!

So are you saying superficial improvements are enough?

I guess that's what most of you are trying to say even though you guys articulate it in a really roundabout way (and try to hide from your true sentiments).

Maybe there is a point to be made that all games dont have to be like Guild Wars 2 or Blade and Soul, but FFXIV still has nothing to really offer. I feel like it's way too mathematical.

[Answa]

Maybe there is a point to be made that all games dont have to be like Guild Wars 2 or Blade and Soul, but FFXIV still has nothing to really offer. I feel like it's way too mathematical.

Then, PLEASE, by all means, LEAVE, and stop bitching about everything.

[Misteyes]

I want to know what your definition of superficial is. The one I'm operating on is something that affects the look of something without affecting its function or effectiveness.

If I put on a green shirt instead of a gray shirt, that's superficial. If I put on a raincoat instead of a t-shirt, that's not.

I disagree that UI is superficial. If it is, then there's only a superficial difference between Microsoft Word and a remote typewriter where you don't even get to see the page without walking into another room.

I also disagree that the enmity algorithm - which affects strategy by determining what actions are acceptable and what actions are mistakes - is superficial.

I also disagree that class balance is superficial. Bad class balance is a real mood-killer for people who want to play a particular class.

Perhaps you can expand on why it "feels way too mathematical"?