PSA - Cleric Stance and vote kicking

[Hamada]

Pot Spamming is a technique used to compensate for inadequate gear in other games, nothing more. In this game it has a cooldown attached to it that makes spamming items counter productive in combat. The only time I even needed pots in this game was right at launch. Afterthat, the buffs in the game associated with pots just don't last long enough to be worth giving them inventory space. Other consumables like food at least last 30 minutes.

The trend I'm seeing is that people are trying to hard to prove that Healers play bad by not DPS'ing, when the evidence appears to be the opposite, Healers of "so much downtime" seems to be because the healer is playing bad on purpose and the tank suffers for it from all the overhealing and enmity generation coming from the healer's inability to pick the right healing spell and instead spamming Medica II or the highest single-target heal as the only heal. You aren't speeding up the run any by DPS'ing as a healer, so why risk wiping the party? It's counter-productive.

The only time I'm hitting a near-OOM point in any duty is when I have to carry a bad or poorly equipped tank, or constantly having to revive DPS taking dirt naps who aren't trying to avoid AOE's. The one I have on video is where a tank broke all their gear by the time it got to Midgardsormr in Keeper of the Lake and had to finish on DPS gear. Or maybe that time where I had to use the Summoner's pet as the tank for one boss because the tank dc'd. All of this is adapting to the situation even if it takes longer instead of "abandoning" or "kicking" because the situation isn't within the parameters you want.

This is the thing that people on the forum refuse to acknowledge, that no players are perfect. If Cleric Stance changes to be useless, and it becomes easier to fire off Aero/Stone that still does not make it something they can just throw in a rotation of healing. Disposing of Cleric Stance at best just removes one of the hurdles needed to play single player quests that otherwise the cooldown between switching stances usually ends up with you taking two hits from a mob, and all the accidental "oops still in CS" that no longer gives the "dps healer" an excuse to exclusively DPS and let the other healer carry the party. I don't expect anything to change really, healers will not be punished by not DPS'ing, and will actually be able to use spells like Assize, Aero III and Holy for where the AOE effect is useful, who cares about the DPS value.

I've never seen a legitmate example of where a healer has been "required" to DPS to get through content. At best, the healer's DPS only makes up for a shortcoming by the DPS in the Savage versions of Raids. They (the developers) have made it clear that all of these things can be cleared using the roles required for the raid or duty, and thus making unreasonable demands of healers or tanks to contribute DPS when it's not even required, is again, is asking to be carried. Big deal if a WHM DPS shaves 10 seconds or 2 minutes off a duty, there is no reward for doing so, and you're not going getting any farther ahead in anything by doing so.

So when you use PUG's, and they aren't playing the way you want, find a static that does. Clearly from the uncivil comments by some people in this thread alone, there are enough arrogant "deeps or get kicked" people that they can all form their own statics and not have to worry about people wanting to have fun.

It is not required, just like it is not required for a BLM to use Fire II on 10+ monsters or have brds do something more then wide volley on AoE. Healers do have a lot of downtime if the tank knows how to be half decent, only trash tanks needs constant healing who also may be ilevel dodging content.

You actually OOM with bad tanks being a pure healer? there is more problems in that party then just the tank. It sounds like you are unaware of the full picture in your DFs to think healer DPS is a bad thing. If you have bad dps, it makes a 40 min DF into 30 mins, if all 4 members are good, it can make a 12-17 min DF to 10-14. Having good players with a healer that does not DPS results in this:

https://youtu.be/jBgMe5uHPsE?t=559

Also the only reason I do not carry potions outside hp healing ones is inventory issues, they are dirt cheap on the market boards and the statement of "Pot Spamming is a technique used to compensate for inadequate gear in other games, nothing more." is wrong

[Jijifli]

I dont care about that changes. lol

I still WONT dps when I play as HEALER in dungeons groups!

Why people think healer classes have to do 2 jobs and tank and dps classes only do 1 job..?

Once DPS's or Tanks has the same healspells healer has, only then I will DPS as healer in groups too! o_o

Tanks are doing a dps's job too. Or did you not notice that? Also, a lot of dps have supportive abilities built into their kit (Eye4anEye, Mage's Ballad, Battle Litany, Apocatastasis, Virus, etc.)

Also, can I casually mention the two ninja skills that literally make the tank do his job, whether he wants to or not? (Shadewalker/Smokescreen)

But ya. Continue acting like pressing cure is entertaining.

[vigioX-Sun]

im pro cleric lover stance but i main a tank,now with dmg scaling on STR im very happy healers got what they want(the majority), now you gonna have to eat my war in deliverance full STR, hope you happy now. you wanted to just heal? you got it muahahah.

[Rawrz]

I really hope they remove the enmity reduction from healing, so a 600 potency healing spells does the equielent of 600 potency dps in terms of emnity instead of 300, that way the more a healer has to heal a tank, the more enmity it generates, causing tanks to actually be mindful of their stances too, instead of just throwing it on the healer and going pure dps stance after the pull, since the healers aren't supposed to have anything better to do. *Throws salt on the tanks :c*

[DaikiKiyoshi]

I really hope they remove the enmity reduction from healing, so a 600 potency healing spells does the equielent of 600 potency dps in terms of emnity instead of 300, that way the more a healer has to heal a tank, the more enmity it generates, causing tanks to actually be mindful of their stances too, instead of just throwing it on the healer and going pure dps stance after the pull, since the healers aren't supposed to have anything better to do. *Throws salt on the tanks :c*

You know this might teach the "I only heal" crowd a thing or two about overhealing by tons too. You wanna stand there and spam medica II? Okay but you won't be doing it for very long when the boss turns around and slaps you into the dirt for it.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

I really hope they remove the enmity reduction from healing, so a 600 potency healing spells does the equielent of 600 potency dps

Oooh nice idea, I like it. And hey, why not quadruple the enmity gen that each healer dps spell generates? That might make it fun, especially in dungeons when the WHM/ast suddenly get mowed down by the adds they were AoEing.

[Rawrz]

Oooh nice idea, I like it. And hey, why not quadruple the enmity gen that each healer dps spell generates? That might make it fun, especially in dungeons when the WHM/ast suddenly get mowed down by the adds they were AoEing.

Yeah! It sounds great! Just make the emnity tanks gain from tank stance doubled too to compensate! Leave off tank dps stance as it is or cut it in half cuz you know they're off tanking. Why do they need emnity? Its a tanks only job to TANK damage remember? Healers only need to HEAL. Why let make a tank do both?

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

Yeah! It sounds great! Just make the emnity tanks gain from tank stance doubled too to compensate! Leave off tank dps stance as it is or cut it in half cuz you know they're off tanking. Why do they need emnity? Its a tanks only job to TANK damage remember? Healers only need to HEAL. Why let make a tank do both?

Naaaah. Tanks don't REALLY need all that enmity gen, do they? That just seems excessive and wasteful, but what they could do is double tank damage in stance, but only on AoE abilities. After all, damage is hate, right? MOAR DEEPS!

[KisaiTenshi]

Just stop.

You are speaking about mechanics and calculations you clearly don't understand.

No. I will not "stop", obviously I've hit a nerve, and this isn't reddit where you can bury it. I will not be bullied.

Everyone can play the game exactly the way they want to, if the way they play is counter-productive, or annoying, you are free to kick them from a party for harassment. A tank or healer that doesn't DPS is not counter-productive.

But people keep sprouting nonsense about the role of the healer in a party having to mandatory DPS. It has not, not has it ever been that way. Your tank has one job, keep enmity, regardless of how much DPS they put out. Your DPS has one job, keep delivering damage. Your Healer has one defined job "heal damage", unless your tank has run away, there is always one target that needs healing. If the tank is spamming healing pots or their own healing skills for no reason, that is counter-productive to drawing enmity.

The developers gave every role some kind of healing and enmity reduction mechanic so that they can play the solo content. That is what it was designed for. The developers did not feel they had to lock out skills that people didn't need in the dungeons in a balanced party. Allowing those things to be used allows for emergent gameplay, which is often encouraged. But no, some of you just want to scream that players aren't following the exact strategy MrHappy or some wiki suggested and instead maybe figure out what works for them.

Why do you really think I'm somehow NOT always pressing buttons? if you are playing the game correctly, you shouldn't have any more than 20% downtime, and your tank shouldn't have to work twice as hard. The #1 complaint from tanks is healers casting Medica II or Regen on completely healed targets.

If Square Enix wants to adjust the mechanics to be more interesting, double the enmity generation from overhealing and non-DoT DPS from healers, that way playing poorly actually has consequences. Let the DPS care about the single targets, if you have time to DPS as a healer it should be for the AOE, not single stones that won't even be noticed.

[Greedalox]

No. I will not "stop", obviously I've hit a nerve, and this isn't reddit where you can bury it. I will not be bullied.

People aren't bullying you. Telling you you're wrong isn't bullying. Telling you that you're spreading not only terrible information- but wrong information isn't bullying. You're trying to make claims that anybody with common sense would disagree with.

Damage+ Team Alive > No Damage+ Team Alive

You claiming that you have an 80% up time as pure healer where everyone else has around 10-20~% shows that you're doing something very ineffectively, but y'know what you are right about? Your right to do things poorly. If it's honestly just a pure preference that you refuse to DPS, then honestly who really cares? People do take issue with falsities. You're either being purposefully ignorant or insincere.

PS The only time I've seen a healer pull threat in the past year was from Cure III spam in raids.