I say no to homogenization!

[Mnemosynia]

Tank should have area's of expertise where they excel in, we should not be pushing for normalization. I do not and you should not want a war, dk, or pld to tank the same way and have the same kinda mitigation and cooldowns.

We need to stop this hear before every class becomes exactly the same like in WoW and other mmo's guys.

Giving everyone reprisal and low blow is not the answer. If yoshi p. wants the tanks to all do the same thing but look different say no, and if indeed my fears come true in stormblood im putting down tank classes and walking away.

That ends my rant, and for you who say whats the problem now no tank is good and now every tank will be invited to groups. I say the fact that people take different tanks for different things is a quality of good class difference.

Not liking these changes at all as a Drk player everything that made my class unique is gone now.

[otarolgam]

MP and Aggro Management is still in DRK's toolkit...? -Shrugs-

[VexSunkiller]

So wait your saying that taking low blow off so to make room in the natural kit and taking away Brutal swing in the warrior kit even tho they were the same damn thing and then giving palais a off global stun is a bad thing?

[Sylvain]

It's a bad thing because it takes up an extra space that could be used for something else. Honestly, they should have just made Paladin's stun off-GCD. >_>

It doesn't take any extra space, Paladin is the only tank that has a baseline stun. (not out of gcd tho)
Which means that even if you need a stun, you don't need to pick up the crossrole one. And having it on the gcd is the obvious trade-off for being a baseline spammable skill.

[KingFrost]

Drk can still be in both stances at the same time and has the best, most consistent AoE, War will be able to do 6 Fell Cleaves in a row, and Pld gets a magical nuke while being able to shield (Divine Veil) and cover the entire party while taking 0 damage. All these are still exclusive and defining characteristics of each class.

That's just off the top of my head what each tank does wildly different from the next, let alone anything else. I don't mind the basics (Base level Mitigation, oGCD stun) being available to all tanks. That's how it is with healers already and is being done to DPS. It actually is just a very simple way of evening the playing field between jobs.

Give it time. We Pld lovers and mains will be the butt of many jibes once more in no time.

[Dzian]

Tank should have area's of expertise where they excel in, we should not be pushing for normalization. I do not and you should not want a war, dk, or pld to tank the same way and have the same kinda mitigation and cooldowns.

Everything is the same because of the obsession with balance. Every ta k has to be able to eat that tank buster. Every healer has to be able to heal a full party..

Originally they were more diverse. Old was a defensive brick wall that could tank anything just had no dps. So it got shafted because it. Defensive tanks don't work in the pure dps meta. It's the same with whom. Pure healing power but gets shafted cos it doesn't fit in the dps meta. And all that healing power simply isn't needed.

You cannot have diverse jobs because everything is built around a present party of 2 2 4 composition. So if you have a tank that is a defensive god but no cos and duty finder puts 2 of them in the group suddenly the group's cos takes a nose dive. If that same group had 2 wins they'd be pretty much screwed in cos checks.

On the flip side if you had 2 warriors that could put out the hurt but needed constant healing cos there defense wasn't anywhere near paladins. And that party had 2 scholars that lack healing power but smash out cos. You might fight that group screwed because it's impossible to keep the tanks alive...

If you want job diversity you need to get rid of the duty finder and let players build parties around there own compositions. Pld tank well we'll only need 1 for this fight and a single whm should easily be able to keep the group alive...

Warrior tank. Ok so we might need 2 of them or a second healer to keep them standing....

Or a second hard to help with no management. It would open up party compositions a lot and allow jobs to have some real diversity

But as long as duty finder and the 2 2 4 set up exists everything will be practically the same...

Even now before the consolidation the tanks are identical.. healing a warrior on my scholar is no different than healing a paladinor a dark. The amount of healing is the same regardless. That tank buster smacks a Saladin for 30k damage. It smacks a warrior and a dark for 30k damage to. It's no different.

[Cabalabob]

If you think DRKs Brutul swing clone and shield swipe/storm's path hybrid are what made it unique you need to get your priorities straight.

This sounds to me like a DRK QQing cause they have to share their toys, like WAR and PLD have since before DRK was even a thing.

The role system is in place so every job from now until the end of time can have a baseline kit of skills to do their job. Freeing up the devs to create more unique skills for future jobs rather than more clones of the same move. Now every new tank doesn't need a Rampart clone, every new tank doesn't need a brutul swing clone, they just take Rampart and low blow. Every new tank also doesn't need to have gla as a cross class or have a provoke clone because provoke is a role skill.

It's a shame you lost a native stun but you also gained a role skill silence. And as for homogenisation, DRK is currently the only tank without a stance based job gauge, it's probably going to be the highest damage tank of all 3 due to its lacking utility differentiating it from PLD and WAR.

Edit:

Okay, let me revise what I said. They should have just gave Paladins an extra off-GCD stun. >_>

case and point of what I said above, this is exactly what they're trying to get away from with role skills. Now PLD and every tank from now until forever doesn't need their own unique oGCD stun that does exactly the same thing with a different name, they have a role skill for it.

[Shurrikhan]

Full time MT/OT separation is a bad mentality, both tanks should actively split the tanking burden to utilize their defensive cds. By doing several tank swaps you can concentrate your cds and mitigate more dmg while maintaining low tank stance uptime on both tanks.

Same thing as MH/OH mentality, with whm/ast full time healing and sch almost full time dpsing, it's terribly inefficient.

This. I don't know why people are happy to "streamline" or "detail" roles by literally just refusing to make best use of their toolkits. Both healers should have DoTs and any efficient HoTs running. They should have as high a combined raid DPS as possible, not just OH dps. A Warrior can still make use of his CDs he's popping for Fel Cleave chains by simply swapping in for their durations, especially given that the MT should hopefully be running in DPS stance by that point anyways.

And the split doesn't reduce homogenization in any way either. It just allows finer shades by which each job must rival another even more closely, creating 5 utterly homogenized roles, rather than 3 less homogenized.

If you think DRKs Brutul swing clone and shield swipe/storm's path hybrid are what made it unique you need to get your priorities straight.

While I'm not sure what you think was a Pacify/DMG done hybrid, given that DRK only has an (on-parry) DMG-mitigator in the form of a CD and its weaponskill is only an INT-reducer, Low Blow's refresh component was at least unique. Its loss won't break the job, but consider:

Would DRK be broken if its X-role 20% mitigation skill were still themed for its job (Shadowskin)?
Would WAR be broken if its X-role 20% mitigation skill were themed for its job (new name and animation)?
Would WAR be broken if its 5s stun still made use of its axe (Brutal Swing)?

SE seems to treat these X-role skills like some sort of ultimatum between job-specific aesthetics and role-wide applicability. But there is ultimatum. You can have BOTH. And I can't imagine we'd be any worse for it.

Each tank gets, let's say:

• a 20s 20% mitigation ability, 90s CD
• a single target peak-enmity ability, 40s CD
• an AoE peak-enmity ability, 90s CD
• a 20% healing taken increase ability, 90s CD
• critical hit taken prevention for 20 seconds, 90s CD
• etc., etc.

What you choose to call each for each job, or what animation you attach to the same effect, is irrelevant.
It will not shatter the X-role dream for DRKs to retain a Rampart animation, icon, and name that actually fits them. So why are we removing it?