I say no to homogenization!

[Mnemosynia]

Tank should have area's of expertise where they excel in, we should not be pushing for normalization. I do not and you should not want a war, dk, or pld to tank the same way and have the same kinda mitigation and cooldowns.

We need to stop this hear before every class becomes exactly the same like in WoW and other mmo's guys.

Giving everyone reprisal and low blow is not the answer. If yoshi p. wants the tanks to all do the same thing but look different say no, and if indeed my fears come true in stormblood im putting down tank classes and walking away.

That ends my rant, and for you who say whats the problem now no tank is good and now every tank will be invited to groups. I say the fact that people take different tanks for different things is a quality of good class difference.

Not liking these changes at all as a Drk player everything that made my class unique is gone now.

[otarolgam]

MP and Aggro Management is still in DRK's toolkit...? -Shrugs-

[VexSunkiller]

So wait your saying that taking low blow off so to make room in the natural kit and taking away Brutal swing in the warrior kit even tho they were the same damn thing and then giving palais a off global stun is a bad thing?

[KingFrost]

Drk can still be in both stances at the same time and has the best, most consistent AoE, War will be able to do 6 Fell Cleaves in a row, and Pld gets a magical nuke while being able to shield (Divine Veil) and cover the entire party while taking 0 damage. All these are still exclusive and defining characteristics of each class.

That's just off the top of my head what each tank does wildly different from the next, let alone anything else. I don't mind the basics (Base level Mitigation, oGCD stun) being available to all tanks. That's how it is with healers already and is being done to DPS. It actually is just a very simple way of evening the playing field between jobs.

Give it time. We Pld lovers and mains will be the butt of many jibes once more in no time.

[Dzian]

Tank should have area's of expertise where they excel in, we should not be pushing for normalization. I do not and you should not want a war, dk, or pld to tank the same way and have the same kinda mitigation and cooldowns.

Everything is the same because of the obsession with balance. Every ta k has to be able to eat that tank buster. Every healer has to be able to heal a full party..

Originally they were more diverse. Old was a defensive brick wall that could tank anything just had no dps. So it got shafted because it. Defensive tanks don't work in the pure dps meta. It's the same with whom. Pure healing power but gets shafted cos it doesn't fit in the dps meta. And all that healing power simply isn't needed.

You cannot have diverse jobs because everything is built around a present party of 2 2 4 composition. So if you have a tank that is a defensive god but no cos and duty finder puts 2 of them in the group suddenly the group's cos takes a nose dive. If that same group had 2 wins they'd be pretty much screwed in cos checks.

On the flip side if you had 2 warriors that could put out the hurt but needed constant healing cos there defense wasn't anywhere near paladins. And that party had 2 scholars that lack healing power but smash out cos. You might fight that group screwed because it's impossible to keep the tanks alive...

If you want job diversity you need to get rid of the duty finder and let players build parties around there own compositions. Pld tank well we'll only need 1 for this fight and a single whm should easily be able to keep the group alive...

Warrior tank. Ok so we might need 2 of them or a second healer to keep them standing....

Or a second hard to help with no management. It would open up party compositions a lot and allow jobs to have some real diversity

But as long as duty finder and the 2 2 4 set up exists everything will be practically the same...

Even now before the consolidation the tanks are identical.. healing a warrior on my scholar is no different than healing a paladinor a dark. The amount of healing is the same regardless. That tank buster smacks a Saladin for 30k damage. It smacks a warrior and a dark for 30k damage to. It's no different.

[Sylvain]

It's a bad thing because it takes up an extra space that could be used for something else. Honestly, they should have just made Paladin's stun off-GCD. >_>

It doesn't take any extra space, Paladin is the only tank that has a baseline stun. (not out of gcd tho)
Which means that even if you need a stun, you don't need to pick up the crossrole one. And having it on the gcd is the obvious trade-off for being a baseline spammable skill.

[Cabalabob]

If you think DRKs Brutul swing clone and shield swipe/storm's path hybrid are what made it unique you need to get your priorities straight.

This sounds to me like a DRK QQing cause they have to share their toys, like WAR and PLD have since before DRK was even a thing.

The role system is in place so every job from now until the end of time can have a baseline kit of skills to do their job. Freeing up the devs to create more unique skills for future jobs rather than more clones of the same move. Now every new tank doesn't need a Rampart clone, every new tank doesn't need a brutul swing clone, they just take Rampart and low blow. Every new tank also doesn't need to have gla as a cross class or have a provoke clone because provoke is a role skill.

It's a shame you lost a native stun but you also gained a role skill silence. And as for homogenisation, DRK is currently the only tank without a stance based job gauge, it's probably going to be the highest damage tank of all 3 due to its lacking utility differentiating it from PLD and WAR.

Edit:

Okay, let me revise what I said. They should have just gave Paladins an extra off-GCD stun. >_>

case and point of what I said above, this is exactly what they're trying to get away from with role skills. Now PLD and every tank from now until forever doesn't need their own unique oGCD stun that does exactly the same thing with a different name, they have a role skill for it.

[Fernosaur]

Cabalabob gets it. They're actually moving away from homogenization with this. Now every tank can decide when and what to take to perform their baseline capabilities, and the devs can design the rest of each job to their heart's content because they'll all have the same necessities.

The difference now will be on each job's individual playstyle and core mechanics, not on which tank can actually outperform the other depending on the fight, which is in my opinion a far worse design choice than what we'll get in Stormblood.

This is a great change and it's really sad that people don't realize the goal of this. Hell, thanks to not having to carry most of the baseline tank skills (like Provoke, Silence, Rampart, Convalescence...) PLD is finally gonna have job mechanics. It will FINALLY have an identity with the new MP management burst and being the only tank with cast times and knightly party mitigation. WAR's entire shtick is managing your Inner Beast gauge in order to be able to Fell Cleave for literal days, which will fit the job's concept of going all out and berserk. Sadly, there's not much info on DRK yet, but at least we know it's gonna be all about managing your Edge Gauge. I'm sure they've come up with some interesting identity for DRK now.

[winsock]

Individual skills matter very little.

It's playstyle and party synergy that combat homogenization. There is no indication thus far that would suggest these role skills will cause homogenization problems.

[aqskerorokero]

I think those role skills are meant to differentiate main tank and off tank playstyle. like the off tank can choose low blow instead of rampart, and majn tank would take provoke and aoe provoke together. If that's so we could find two same jobs with different tools, in the case of 2 pld in the same df party they can just switch role skills inside of duty decide from the start who perform mt role. not optimal, but atleast better than current df.