PSA - Cleric Stance and vote kicking

[Miste]

However, in my personal experience, a paladin using only flash has never been able to hold aggro against a good DPS that wants to do nothing but their maximum potential.

I just did an expert on PLD i268 with my BF on BLM i268 and a bard with i275 anima and i260-i270 gear and for some of the pulls I only used Flash and nothing else but cooldowns and I still held hate with no issue. The damage was far from bad so yeah it is possible.

[Silverquick]

I cannot make sense of what you are even talking about now (because I mentioned cooldowns already) so best to give up because my initial question wasn't even directed at you.

Also the DPS being bad or not has nothing to do with it...the point is you could still do that and hold hate so still would be interesting to see a PLD do nothing but flash and sit there waiting for the mobs to die :/

Oh no, he's actually quite right...


DPS who actually play their character and know how to are going to quite literally double the damage you put out as a healer.

If both DPS are pulling their weight the run will be smooth and quick without you DPSing at all. And I've seen it time and again. I'm on the other side putting out major DPS, and the side car, the other guy is barely eeking it out. I can tell because I know exactly how far the mob's health will drop with my attacks at this point in most of the high level dungeons. I've been through them so much. Its then that I notice healer DPS making up for and carrying the other guy.

That is what you are doing when you HAVE to DPS...you're making up for one or both of the DPS's in group not pulling their wieght. It means the other DPS is so poor he's barely able to do the damage you are. Obviously keep in mind iLvl differences, but seriously two DPS's that know what they're doing will wipe things with or without you very quickly.

And I can tell, how?

The number of Holies or Gravities I can count before they're dead.

If I'm going... one... two... thr... whoa they're dead... I've got a good DPS partner who is keeping up with me, and you barely got off 2 holy/gravities

If I've already blown Shadowflare, Tri-Disaster + Bane, Two Painflares, Deathflare, and I'm down to using Miasma 2 and about to get in and spam Bliz 2... and I'm starting to count the 4th or 5th Gravity/Holy... I already know the other DPS partner sucks. It means the only two people who are DPSing are me and you, and the other guy is probably single targeting mobs like that ONE mob somehow is more important than the other 6-7.

Scholars DPS is sneakier, so I can't count theirs like that.

I already know healer DPS is helpful... but..... as to how much help you're ACTUALLY providing is wholely dependent upon how crappy or good my DPS partner is.

So blaming the Healer for DPS problems with the group has little to nothing to do with a Healer OR their DPS.

Its ALL on the DPS themselves.

[Miste]

???????????

I said DPS has nothing to do with the scenario I was talking about in a previous post with tanks holding hate with only Flash...so I think you must have misunderstood? Because none of what you just wrote has anything to do with what I was talking about nor did I ever blame DPS problems on healers O.o

[Ama_Hamada]

I just did an expert on PLD i268 with my BF on BLM i268 and a bard with i275 anima and i260-i270 gear and for some of the pulls I only used Flash and nothing else but cooldowns and I still held hate with no issue. The damage was far from bad so yeah it is possible.

I seen a i270 brd with a i275 weapon pulling 1200 DPS on aoe (healer can hit 2000-2600 depending on what pull you are talking about) no idea what single target bosses was didn't get to see the meter for bosses, but point is, saying you held hate off a brd like that may not be saying much. For BLM I am not sure, my friend releases thunderclouds like mad and tanked before off it. But blm aoe is not very big, (unless the BLM gets lucky and allows thundercloud spam on the different monsters) now if you held off hate like that with a good SMN, then that is worth noting.

[Silverquick]

I said DPS has nothing to do with the scenario I was talking about in a previous post with tanks holding hate with only Flash...so I think you must have misunderstood? Because none of what you just wrote has anything to do with what I was talking about nor did I ever blame DPS problems on healers O.o

My apologies I may have quoted the wrong post on that.

That said... my point about the DPS problems have nothing to do with healers, is dead on.

DPS needs to be called out more often, rather than blaming it on the healers.

[technole]

"Weak" DPS you can hold hate from pretty easily as a tank, in-fact it works both ways. It's not about ilvl or gear, it's about doing maximum damage and threat.

You can run into an arrogant tank gets used to weak aggro threat because of this, then when really *good* DPS shows up they try to pull bosses and things with Deliverance or Sword Oath (without a Ninja Shadewalker, showing how dumb they are) and they wet their pants losing aggro, even if DPS use things such as Quelling.

[kattzkitti]

what i see from this "new meta" is...
why we need DPS job in this game anymore? we have a DPS job whom can Heal at the same time (WHM/SCH/AST)
just take a 1 tank and 7 healer to do a raid content from 4.0 now... yup a new meta... lol

Healer job damage output is vastly lower than DPS job damage output. Unless they change current potency values, healer job damage output is going to be even lower now, making the gap between them and DPS jobs even more vast. I'd have to actually test it, but I wouldn't be surprised if healer job damage output is lower than even tank jobs.

[Yahallo]

I was reading this thread a bit earlier today and noticed some people said tha kicking a healer for not DPS'ing would be considered abusing the kick system. I would like to remind people that while it is not listed as one of the options, it is allowed to kick someone due to "difference in play style," and I am sure not DPS'ing as a healer would fall under this. So I don't think anyone would get any punishment for kicking a healer for not DPS'ing.



If someone already mentioned this then I apologize for the unnecessary post; I stopped on somewhere between page 18 and 24.

[Legion88]

Healer job damage output is vastly lower than DPS job damage output. Unless they change current potency values, healer job damage output is going to be even lower now, making the gap between them and DPS jobs even more vast. I'd have to actually test it, but I wouldn't be surprised if healer job damage output is lower than even tank jobs.

Some numbers from a random casual static...

tanks: 1.2k - 1.8k
healers: 1k - 1.3k
DPS: 2.5k - 3k

Can be found on a site which must not be named...

[technole]

Healer job damage output is vastly lower than DPS job damage output. Unless they change current potency values, healer job damage output is going to be even lower now, making the gap between them and DPS jobs even more vast. I'd have to actually test it, but I wouldn't be surprised if healer job damage output is lower than even tank jobs.

Today, a healer can replace a melee DPS in A12 Savage time gate just fine and nuke down that add DPS check (assuming the other melee just LB2 the healer add). This is actually the most optimal strat in A12S, not having a healer just heal themselves and wait for a DPS to down their add. That's how much healer DPS brings to the table in end-game raiding.

A good tank will put up about 1500+ DPS, a good healer can put up 1000+ dps in A12S, not as vast today. But tanks are also getting a damage nerf as a result of the STR change from VIT/STR.