PSA - Cleric Stance and vote kicking

[Miste]

However, in my personal experience, a paladin using only flash has never been able to hold aggro against a good DPS that wants to do nothing but their maximum potential.

I just did an expert on PLD i268 with my BF on BLM i268 and a bard with i275 anima and i260-i270 gear and for some of the pulls I only used Flash and nothing else but cooldowns and I still held hate with no issue. The damage was far from bad so yeah it is possible.

[Ama_Hamada]

I just did an expert on PLD i268 with my BF on BLM i268 and a bard with i275 anima and i260-i270 gear and for some of the pulls I only used Flash and nothing else but cooldowns and I still held hate with no issue. The damage was far from bad so yeah it is possible.

I seen a i270 brd with a i275 weapon pulling 1200 DPS on aoe (healer can hit 2000-2600 depending on what pull you are talking about) no idea what single target bosses was didn't get to see the meter for bosses, but point is, saying you held hate off a brd like that may not be saying much. For BLM I am not sure, my friend releases thunderclouds like mad and tanked before off it. But blm aoe is not very big, (unless the BLM gets lucky and allows thundercloud spam on the different monsters) now if you held off hate like that with a good SMN, then that is worth noting.

[technole]

"Weak" DPS you can hold hate from pretty easily as a tank, in-fact it works both ways. It's not about ilvl or gear, it's about doing maximum damage and threat.

You can run into an arrogant tank gets used to weak aggro threat because of this, then when really *good* DPS shows up they try to pull bosses and things with Deliverance or Sword Oath (without a Ninja Shadewalker, showing how dumb they are) and they wet their pants losing aggro, even if DPS use things such as Quelling.

[Miste]

I seen a i270 brd with a i275 weapon pulling 1200 DPS on aoe (healer can hit 2000-2600 depending on what pull you are talking about) no idea what single target bosses was didn't get to see the meter for bosses, but point is, saying you held hate off a brd like that may not be saying much. For BLM I am not sure, my friend releases thunderclouds like mad and tanked before off it. But blm aoe is not very big, now if you held off hate like that with a good SMN, then that is worth noting.

The WHM was also Holy spamming some and I still held hate and it was more of the point that yes you could do that since many people in the thread seem to think PLD can't hold hate with only flash. I don't know about your BLM friend, but my BLM AoE in Experts pulls good numbers and I personally tend to take hate from lower geared or inexperienced tanks.

Expecting to come across top tier DPS in DF is pretty out there as well so I am willing to bet PLD could just spam only flash and hold hate on trash pulls against 80% of DPS and healers you get in DF if the PLD was decently geared.

But I accept the challenge and I will try to do the same thing but with a high DPS SMN when I have time, but still doesn't mean much because PLD could still just flash and use cooldowns and /dance waiting for mobs to die every time you don't have a good SMN in the party? I mean...that doesn't really stop my point since only one DPS job out of seven can ruin the PLD's less contributing play style.

My apologies I may have quoted the wrong post on that.

That said... my point about the DPS problems have nothing to do with healers, is dead on.

DPS needs to be called out more often, rather than blaming it on the healers.

No problem.

I don't think most people are blaming healers for slow DPS....at least for me it is more of a "everyone should do everything they are capable of to help the team" which is why I always add DPS as a healer in content. I can offer the extra DPS for my team so I do that because I know it helps everyone.

I never harass any healers who don't DPS though, but with healer DPS going off of MND now it will be way safer for healers to toss out some DPS spells here and there to help out their team so I think I can see it as a good change since there isn't much reason not to throw out some DoTs or a Holy/Gravity or two since you can immediately start healing right away and not worry about Cleric messing you up.

[Ama_Hamada]

The WHM was also Holy spamming some and I still held hate and it was more of the point that yes you could do that since many people in the thread seem to think PLD can't hold hate with only flash. I don't know about your BLM friend, but my BLM AoE in Experts pulls good numbers and I personally tend totake hate from lower geared or inexperienced tanks.

Expecting to come across top tier DPS in DF is pretty out there as well so I am willing to bet PLD could just spam only flash and hold hate on trash pulls against 80% of DPS and healers you get in DF if the PLD was decently geared.

But I accept the challenge and I will try to do the same thing but with a high DPS SMN when I have time, but still doesn't mean much because PLD could still just flash and use cooldowns and /dance waiting for mobs to die every time you don't have a good SMN in the party? I mean...that doesn't really stop my point since only one DPS job out of seven can ruin the PLD's less contributing play style.




No problem.

I don't think most people are blaming healers for slow DPS....at least for me it is more of a "everyone should do everything they are capable of to help the team" which is why I always add DPS as a healer in content. I can offer the extra DPS for my team so I do that because I know it helps everyone.

I never harass any healers who don't DPS though, but with healer DPS going off of MND now it will be way safer for healers to toss out some DPS spells here and there to help out their team so I think I can see it as a good change since there isn't much reason not to throw out some DoTs or a Holy/Gravity or two since you can immediately start healing right away and not worry about Cleric messing you up.

OFC BLM can pull hate off mediocre or inexperienced tanks, but the thing is, can a PLD hold hate with only flash off good SMN? I am not sure what else has high AoE hate grabbing but I do not think blm is really up there, you need find really good players for that.

Highest meter I seen on a SMN is 8900 DPS off AoE, highest blm is 4200? something in the 4000s for AoE and brd , i seen in the 6000's with a bad nin. So when I see a brd in i270/275 relic doing 1200, it can really show how big skill gap is