PSA - Cleric Stance and vote kicking

[Silverquick]

I'm about to say something I know you guys aren't going to like... but...

Knowing the psychology of the Devs, I suspect you guys may be overplaying the Healers need to DPS now that there's no Cleric Stance portion...

I have a sneaky suspicion... that the Healer job damage intentionally got an overall nerf when they swapped it over to Mind based.

While I am not someone who says Healers should never DPS... have noticed a consistent view or direction from the Dev team on this.

They have intended it to be optional, not required... and if you make it required at a playerbase level, they're likely to nerf it even more.

So you really might want to lighten up on it a bit.

[Sebazy]

And back on topic, I don't see why this is such a hotly debated and sensitive topic tbh. It really does touch a nerve.

To all those proclaiming that this the death of the healy healer:

This is going to help those that do modest DPS already likely do significantly more. Those that are against doing DPS for 'reasons' aren't likely to be changed by this, #dealwithit however you will.

To all those proclaiming that healers have no excuse not to dps now:

Context is king here, piling pressure on nervous timid players and those that simply lack the physical or mental dexterity to reliably juggle dps and heals isn't going to achieve anything good. If you have someone like that healing in your static, work with them, coach them and help them build their confidence and skill up to the point where they can start putting those dots out and you'll have achieved something positive for the group. In a pug? Consider opening dialogue, but remember that thrusting your playstyle upon them is likely to cause more issues than it solves irrespective of who's right or wrong.

To those that flat out refuse to DPS regardless of the situation because it's not their job:

Your entitled and lazy attitude has no place in a team game game such as this. A little effort goes a long long way with most people, try it sometime.

Lastly, healer DPS is anything but black or white. It all boils down to a number of different factors. It should be appreciated when it's there, but it shouldn't be mindlessly expected.

[Stormbad]

For those who want healers to only heal or condone those types of healers, what would you think would happen if the content was drastically changed where a healer cannot waste a single cast without the group potentially dying? I imagine they would still fail in that situation whereas people who find the challenge of healing and dpsing will succeed. This is why people get the impression of "lazy healers" because it's not about the principle, it's more about the excuse.

And for those who are healer-only and think they can succeed in the scenario I described above, why don't you solo heal extremes and savage? That will give you the heal-only experience you want, right?

[Naunet]

For those who want healers to only heal or condone those types of healers, what would you think would happen if the content was drastically changed where a healer cannot waste a single cast without the group potentially dying?

That would be fantastic to me (though I'm someone who does dps when I can). I've requested time and again that healers be given more healing to do.

[Fyce]

That would be fantastic to me (though I'm someone who does dps when I can). I've requested time and again that healers be given more healing to do.

Then content would entirely be designed around managing healer's mana, and nothing else. Medica, Cure and Cure II would only be the button you press, save for an occasional cooldown when healing is too intensive.

Believe it or not, but a lot of people find that boring.

[LunaFaye]

Well my perspective it that, I wan't everybody to play at their full capacity and potency, and I do think that everybody has a different definition of these words. That's what the overall problem really is, while I am not saying we should tolerate extreme bad and lazy players and reward them with clearing the content for them, I do think we need to give it a break. Slow your role and keep reading, not everybody can perform the same, and we shouldn't be punishing these players but give them a helping hand.


What I mean by that is this, some players do not know their own job skills, and I don't mean they level'd in potd before someone throws that out there, no I speak about people that even read the skill description but somehow misinterpret the whole thing. Sure it isn't our problem that someone might not be able to read, and I agree with that to some point, because the next question would be why can't that person read or how can I maybe explain it to someone on a bit simpler basis.

example: I did have a new player in one of my leveling roulette's that was spamming cure and cure II, trying to catch up with the damage the tank as well as the melee dps regularly took, to a point were that healer was just stressed out, that lead to more mistakes that could have been avoided, if that person would be able to play the game more relaxed.

I decided to be that person that nobody wants in a group and start explaining their jobs to them, as well as the encounters of the dungeons, even went absolute old school and marked stuff, told them which skill to use at that moment and explained why etc. Guess what, yes the run took extremely long, but at the end everybody thanked me, for helping them understand their job/skill and responses that come with it. I did tell them to give their commendation, to the person they believe performed the best, based on the learning run we just did and should exclude me.

I know what you're all thinking, why would we need to babysit players, because it forms and shaves the community to your likening. Going the lets kick everybody that don't play like we do, or that doesn't use specific skills might feel good at that moment, thinking that person will learn, but to be honest that person won't learn and if you're unlucky a day later you will meet that same person again, now with some friends that are as bad as that player, because they didn't know better. It also creates a rift between new/veterans/skilled and unskilled, instead of supporting each other.

I personally think that everybody should be entitled (yes you reading this correctly, we're going to use the word entitlement for once.) to play how they like, whatever way that might be, and you need to tolerate or ignore it.

There shouldn't be groups that claim that they have more rights and entitlements then others, or groups that think they are less entitled because they are not performing on first clear level.

With that said, I do think that if a healer does not want to dps, regardless of the reasoning (nobodies business), then that should be accepted. If you can't accept it, leave the group and re queue after 30 minutes.

Before starting with the argument why do I need to take the penalty, well we could ask the same, why does the healer need to be stressed out or being uncomfortable, because you want him/her to dps. We could also ask why are you not performing better etc.

Nonsense point of a discussion and shouldn't even be made. Ask yourself, do I want to help or should I just leave. Regardless what your choice might be, both parties feel much better, but I do think, that when it comes to the point were others now trying to enforce their own play style onto players, that's just not right and should have severe consequences.

I do hope I am not going to see that kind of behavior anytime soon. I am aware it exists already to a certain point, but it's not as bad, as it might or could be, but if we do not take some action here soon we might end up with worse problems and a never ending witch hunt, if we keep continuing with the "kick the healer if he doesn't dps, no excuses in SB anymore" kind of propaganda.

[missybee]

I personally think that everybody should be entitled (yes you reading this correctly, we're going to use the word entitlement for once.) to play how they like, whatever way that might be, and you need to tolerate or ignore it.

People are definitely entitled to play in whatever fashion they desire. That said, they can't guarantee that there won't be ramifications as a result of their chosen playstyle.

If, for instance, I saw someone on healer jumping around like a loony and not actually contributing anything whatsoever to the group, I would likely ask that they put in a little bit more effort for the sake of the run. If the response is negative, rather than "tolerating or ignoring it," there is a third option - and considering that this third option requires a majority agreement, I don't think there is anything wrong with using it.

[Naunet]

Then content would entirely be designed around managing healer's mana, and nothing else. Medica, Cure and Cure II would only be the button you press, save for an occasional cooldown when healing is too intensive.

Believe it or not, but a lot of people find that boring.

1. Perhaps that's a sign that healing spells should be more interesting than just "single target", "stronger single target", "aoe". Considering other game devs have managed to come up with more complicated designs, I think we can stand to expect more from SE.

2. You don't heal in a vacuum. Good, complex boss mechanics make even the simplest healing fun.

[Crysten]

snip.

Someone get this Lala a cookie

[bounddreamer]

Someone get this Lala a cookie

Sebazy has my vote for president.