PSA - Cleric Stance and vote kicking

[LunaFaye]

Well my perspective it that, I wan't everybody to play at their full capacity and potency, and I do think that everybody has a different definition of these words. That's what the overall problem really is, while I am not saying we should tolerate extreme bad and lazy players and reward them with clearing the content for them, I do think we need to give it a break. Slow your role and keep reading, not everybody can perform the same, and we shouldn't be punishing these players but give them a helping hand.


What I mean by that is this, some players do not know their own job skills, and I don't mean they level'd in potd before someone throws that out there, no I speak about people that even read the skill description but somehow misinterpret the whole thing. Sure it isn't our problem that someone might not be able to read, and I agree with that to some point, because the next question would be why can't that person read or how can I maybe explain it to someone on a bit simpler basis.

example: I did have a new player in one of my leveling roulette's that was spamming cure and cure II, trying to catch up with the damage the tank as well as the melee dps regularly took, to a point were that healer was just stressed out, that lead to more mistakes that could have been avoided, if that person would be able to play the game more relaxed.

I decided to be that person that nobody wants in a group and start explaining their jobs to them, as well as the encounters of the dungeons, even went absolute old school and marked stuff, told them which skill to use at that moment and explained why etc. Guess what, yes the run took extremely long, but at the end everybody thanked me, for helping them understand their job/skill and responses that come with it. I did tell them to give their commendation, to the person they believe performed the best, based on the learning run we just did and should exclude me.

I know what you're all thinking, why would we need to babysit players, because it forms and shaves the community to your likening. Going the lets kick everybody that don't play like we do, or that doesn't use specific skills might feel good at that moment, thinking that person will learn, but to be honest that person won't learn and if you're unlucky a day later you will meet that same person again, now with some friends that are as bad as that player, because they didn't know better. It also creates a rift between new/veterans/skilled and unskilled, instead of supporting each other.

I personally think that everybody should be entitled (yes you reading this correctly, we're going to use the word entitlement for once.) to play how they like, whatever way that might be, and you need to tolerate or ignore it.

There shouldn't be groups that claim that they have more rights and entitlements then others, or groups that think they are less entitled because they are not performing on first clear level.

With that said, I do think that if a healer does not want to dps, regardless of the reasoning (nobodies business), then that should be accepted. If you can't accept it, leave the group and re queue after 30 minutes.

Before starting with the argument why do I need to take the penalty, well we could ask the same, why does the healer need to be stressed out or being uncomfortable, because you want him/her to dps. We could also ask why are you not performing better etc.

Nonsense point of a discussion and shouldn't even be made. Ask yourself, do I want to help or should I just leave. Regardless what your choice might be, both parties feel much better, but I do think, that when it comes to the point were others now trying to enforce their own play style onto players, that's just not right and should have severe consequences.

I do hope I am not going to see that kind of behavior anytime soon. I am aware it exists already to a certain point, but it's not as bad, as it might or could be, but if we do not take some action here soon we might end up with worse problems and a never ending witch hunt, if we keep continuing with the "kick the healer if he doesn't dps, no excuses in SB anymore" kind of propaganda.

[missybee]

I personally think that everybody should be entitled (yes you reading this correctly, we're going to use the word entitlement for once.) to play how they like, whatever way that might be, and you need to tolerate or ignore it.

People are definitely entitled to play in whatever fashion they desire. That said, they can't guarantee that there won't be ramifications as a result of their chosen playstyle.

If, for instance, I saw someone on healer jumping around like a loony and not actually contributing anything whatsoever to the group, I would likely ask that they put in a little bit more effort for the sake of the run. If the response is negative, rather than "tolerating or ignoring it," there is a third option - and considering that this third option requires a majority agreement, I don't think there is anything wrong with using it.

[LunaFaye]

People are definitely entitled to play in whatever fashion they desire. That said, they can't guarantee that there won't be ramifications as a result of their chosen playstyle.

If, for instance, I saw someone on healer jumping around like a loony and not actually contributing anything whatsoever to the group, I would likely ask that they put in a little bit more effort for the sake of the run. If the response is negative, rather than "tolerating or ignoring it," there is a third option - and considering that this third option requires a majority agreement, I don't think there is anything wrong with using it.

Oh I agree with that, but that's a complete different circumstance, I was more pointing out that people might end up being bias, before the dungeon run even started.


Let's say you get into the dungeon, normally in the first one or two pulls, a healer doesn't dps. Because most of these times he healer want to look at the groups and especially tanks behavior, taking a closer look what they do need to prepare for.

Knowing the community (not everybody or the majority but a good amount of people) that will already have made up their mind, no matter how the run might progress, keeping a close look at the timer. After 15 minutes passed, healer gets kicked with the mindset that because cleric stance is removed, that healer needs to do a good amount of damage or any damage.

And that is the situation were I was saying, please calm your horses and look at the whole situation, instead of just pointing out what the healer might or might not be doing during that run, and if someone finds them self in that kind of situation, we shouldn't encourage people to kick others because they need to enforce a play style, that has nothing to do with the actual removal of cleric stance and shouldn't be pushed as their own private battle, for whatever reasons.

Removing cleric stance is great, but it shouldn't turn into a witch hunt, thinking that because it has been removed it's now official indicator that healers have to dps. It's also not a written law/rule anywhere and in my personal opinion shouldn't be enforced like that aka kick all healers that don't dps in sb, right off the bat.

If a healer stands around doing nothing, just like any other party member in that case, deserves to be kicked, but that wasn't what I tried to discuss.

[missybee]

Snip!

I can only speak for myself, but I would never just kick someone for not DPSing after the first pull, for instance. There are myriad reasons why they might not be able to DPS initially, and I try not to be super quick to judge.

Personally, my beef is more with the people who are already insisting that they won't even try when Stormblood rolls out. I find the "you don't pay my sub" mentality to be insufferable, particularly considering that most things in XIV are team-based.