A Needless Indulgence, or a Lost Opportunity? (Devs?)

[Murugan]

It's kind of ironic that in order to beat ifrit you have to have better gear than what he drops.

If by ironic you mean ridiculously untrue, then I agree!

Seriously.... what weapons are you using to kill Ifrit that are better than his drops?

oh wait nevermind you're a troll account (1.2 can't come fast enough)

[Wynn]

I'm not sure what the BG Dbag thread that got locked has to do with the OP

[Jinko]

But after reading all the douchebaggery last night, I can't help but ask myself, "Why are we letting these people dictate the terms of content?" What about ... everyone else? We ever gonna get a crack at this?

Because FFXIV is like the adoptive home of lost FF11 puppies, they came to Erozea thinking they could mold and shape the game into FF11-2 and to some extent they have done that.

Personally I am willing to put the time and effort into gearing up for Ifrit, including materia, but I do draw the line at leveling a class I have no intention of playing.

I've just leveled Lancer up to 50 and thats cool because I do enjoy that class, but screwed if im guna jump straight back into grinding to get Gladiator to 36, when does the fun start ?

Ifrit is a fun encounter but its so badly balanced the community is quickly taking any fun out of the experience by inforcing these silly rules.

[Lienn]

Well, do i agree with Moose. My feeling when i first logged in after patching 1.19 is described perfectly by him.

[AdvancedWind]

It's kind of ironic that in order to beat ifrit you have to have better gear than what he drops.

Isn't it like that on every FF game?

"Yay, I just beat Ruby Weapon! Let's see what I've got.........oh, a brand new golden chocobo! Now I am able to reach the Knights of the Round materia that I've just used to beat him!"

lol j/k

[Anonymoose]

Forgive the possibly jumbled (probably reversed) response order; twas a ton of copypasta.

I don't get what you're talking about. I'm part of three very laid-back linkshells. We have loads of fun trying to beat Ifrit and Darkhold. We're not elitists at all. Find a community that fits you. Have fun. Done.

I'm not implying that in order to enjoy Ifrit that you must be an elitist, but I think it speaks volumes that even the people who are, as you say you are, a member of multiple in-game communities throwing themselves at a wall have yet to make progress at it. I don't begrudge you your fun, and if I had more time to play the game I might be having that much fun as well, but even with all the help and connections most people have, beating Ifrit is still just something "The Hardcore" put at their forum signature. I'm not saying it doesn't sound like overcoming the challenge would be fun, I'm saying that it doesn't feel like the fun of overcoming the challenge is worth it under these conditions.

Because FFXIV is like the adoptive home of lost FF11 puppies, they came to Erozea thinking they could mold and shape the game into FF11-2 and to some extent they have done that.
...

Ifrit is a fun encounter but its so badly balanced the community is quickly taking any fun out of the experience by inforcing these silly rules.

This is really the alpha and omega of what I'm getting at (Thank You.). I have nothing against difficult content, I have something against arbitrarily difficult content with stipulations that just seem silly. Having multiple classes high enough to use their unique abilities should make content easier, not be the requirement to make it possible.

The requirements for the Ifrit fight seem to be the result of threads like Deava/BG (no offense, not calling you out, but you can't deny the example here) trolling Yoshida for "Content that's not so f**king easy mode." Again, challenge can be fun, but this is just a bunch of spicy food enthusiasts telling a chef that his restaurant's "hot" menu is pussified until he cranks the heat until most people won't eat it. If it's going to get easier as more stuff comes out, fine - but that doesn't even seem to be the case with the Post-1.19 Darkhold, nevermind hopes for Post-1.21 Ifrit.

I'm not sure what the BG Dbag thread that got locked has to do with the OP

See second paragraph above.

Some content just needs to be hard, even if just for a little while. You'll get to enjoy that content when either you decide to do what you feel needs to be done to take a shot at it or it gets nerfed to just fit what you've got right then.

I wholeheartedly agree - like I said, I wasn't even going to bring this up until it all kinda got under my skin. The ENTIRE point of this thread is to ask will it only be this hard for now, or will the updates make it more attainable for the people without the time to grind out materia sets and multiple 50s. I'm not saying those things are required now, but the only people winning are the people with those things - it creates a STIGMA, and until the upper middle class starts getting somewhere, it's not going anywhere. If they were... I'd be more apt to bite my tongue about it.

heck, one of the LNC in my LS party tonight was wearing kokoroon mail still, that didn't suddenly make him worthless or made us unable to beat Ifrit.

I applaud your groups attitude; I myself am on a server with a very small Level 50 English community; we're talking 3 linkshells who constantly trade their members back and forth. Unfortunately, by the time you break those numbers down to the kind of group you're talking about - they don't usually have the skill to beat it anyway. To those communities who think I'm trolling or exaggerating, I envy your server population, I really do.

What is with these self appointed casual elitists dictating to everyone else how they should be able to enjoy the game they paid for?

If me asking questions is dictating terms and, thus, being an elitist - what do you call the EXACT QUESTION I just asked above (why the challenges of content are based entirely on the begging of the "everything at 50" crowd"), pretty much word for word what you're asking of me? For all the people saying I've missed a point here, this just... Wow. How can you even throw around the word casual when we're on similar terms of progress? If you do consider yourself "Hardcore," however, thank you for illustrating my point about that particular attitude.

I'm not saying the fight should be easy mode, I'm saying it shouldn't have artificially inflated difficulty via stigma-creating mechanics based on the whims of those who do nothing but live and breathe FFXIV. The game's target demographic isn't exactly the people who blow through it and quit because they're bored of being so epic, it's aimed at people who'll keep paying subscription fees - which, and I HATE to say this, I'm losing my will for due to do due to things like this.

Isn't it like that on every FF game

It feels like it sometimes, doesn't it!? But sometimes it feels so different. I walked in the Darkhold in Velveteen and SKILL was enough to have walked out in (what was at the time) amazing rank 50 gear - now the endgame communities on my server are of the mind, "Meh, all of that's worthless. Deck yourself back out in the new felt gear, get healing+ and MND materia on every piece, level GLA to 36, and we'll take you for Ifrit." For.... the Playstation Move controller and a Nuke weapon for the healing class?

I'll pass. I just don't want to make those choices for those reasons. Nobody else loses morale to keep playing the game with sh!t like that? I'll hold my tongue if it's just me. I'm just getting tired of it.

I know the community won't always be like this, I know hard battles eventually get easier, and I even would say I'm among those that love a challenging fight. Chains of Promathia? Hell yes. True difficulty. This? Arbitrary inflation? Not as much. STILL, THAT IS IRRELEVANT TO MY POINT.

[SIZE=5]BUT WILL THE CONTENT OF EORZEA 1.0 BE FOLLOWING THAT TREND BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE TO ACHIEVE IT. THIS IS WHAT I'M TRYING TO ASK HERE. DOES CAPS LOCK, BOLD, AND LARGE TEXT MAKE THAT ANY MORE EASY TO NOTICE? </billymayeslock>
[/SIZE]

[Jinko]

but this is just a bunch of spicy food enthusiasts telling a chef that his restaurant's "hot" menu is pussified until he cranks the heat until most people won't eat it.

This is so true !

[Teakwood]

The flip side is that you're basically saying the people who actually like spicy food and can't stand bland food should suck it up and deal with it in 100% of cases, which is as unfair to the spicy-food enthusiasts as having no options for non-spicy food at all in the entire game would be to people who prefer bland food. >_>

(Which: I see your point, but there's also a point on the other side that's not -just- 'hurr nyurr we're xxxhardxxxcorexxx we're so much better than everyone else hurr', and it being consistently mischaracterised is a little bit offputting.)

Edit: In any event, I'm curious as to a response to the /actual question/ of the thread here, too.

[Anonymoose]

The flip side is that you're basically saying the people who actually like spicy food and can't stand bland food should suck it up and deal with it in 100% of cases, which is as unfair to the spicy-food enthusiasts as having no options for non-spicy food at all in the entire game would be to people who prefer bland food. >_>

I do so enjoy devil's advocate and contradictory arguments when they're respectfully put forward, so before I even say anything, +1 for that.

You're right - what's needed here is balance; I'm not saying the food should be bland. I love me some kick! However, I'm the type of person who, instead of calling out the chef for cooking for pansies, brings his own spices sometimes. There should be enough challenge for the majority of the game to actually have a pretty good chance of losing if they do a few things wrong - but not so hard that you're pretty much guaranteed to lose if you're missing base requirements that the majority of the community lacks.

If you want that extra challenge based on standards that most of the endgame community can't meet for e-peen? Do it in your bathing suit. Do it in the Velveteen gear we killed the Darkhold in! Do it in RECORD TIME LIKE THE OLD DAYS! We're bringing back so much from XI, why not that?

Again, if this changes in time, I'll be fine with the initial hardcore challenge - but if Eorzea 2.0 shatters the chance to get it before it gets any easier, I just think it's a shame to exclude a rather large demographic. That's all I care about here. I won't begrudge the 12hr-a-dayers their limelight (have to feel like you matter somewhere, right?). Just give me a chance at it before the moon falls, even if University is killing my freetime to grind crafting, materia, and a specific class ability.

[Nabiri]

I see what the OP is saying. I also love a challenge, but I do hope I get the chance to complete everything, (I hope it's not too hard for me to accomplish) before the world as we know it "ends." XD
I don't care how hard everything is after 2.0, when I have more time to improve myself and work towards it, but I hope I can beat Ifrit and such before the big boom. :3 If they make things easier just this once, I won't complain. :x