Necromancer Identity Crisis

[Sushikins]

As a SMN main since 2.0 and someone whose favorite job in the franchise is Summoner, I've long since given up any thoughts of a massive job overhaul or change, at least for the foreseeable future. I will say that compared to the other jobs in the game, Summoner in general fails to live up to the expectations of the job that fans of the series have come to expect, which is why I see these threads crop up constantly, but people hoping for a massive rework or XI-sized summons are probably only going to be disappointed.

I think things will get better when the Egi Glamour system starts to get expanded and takes off, when we have more than Garuda/Ifrit/Titan and Carbuncle as summons, and gets a bit closer to the job that is capable of summoning the many primals present in the game. My greatest fear for the system: the Carbuncles were just a model swap of the Egis, with the attack animations being the same as the egi they were pasted over. While it is a lot of work, I'm hoping that isn't the case when using a glamour of a primal egi, with their attacks and enkindle animations changing to match the egi glamoured.

Between the egi glamours (and it looks like maybe the appearance of egis are getting improved in SB as well) and hopefully an expansion of DWT abilities in SB, I'm cautiously optimistic that Summoner will slowly get closer and closer to what a lot of people generally expect it to be. I certainly wouldn't mind if the poison-based ACN abilities got animation/name changes when equipping the job stone or if the job was eventually split from ACN/SCH and reworked to some degree, but I'm not holding my breath waiting for such a thing to happen.

While it's not my favorite version of SMN from the franchise, I do enjoy playing the job as it is now, and I think that with the right adjustments and QoL changes, it can be brought closer to the sort of job people expect from SMN without changing how the job works in a major way, but of course, not everyone will be happy regardless of what SE decided to do with SMN in the future (especially since SMN has been presented in a number of different ways over the course of the franchise).

[Yorumi]

To me they really missed an opportunity to use summons as part of skill animations. Summoners in FF have had all kinds of summons, they should have made for example tri-disaster's graphic summon something, hit the target, and then desummon. They could have had ruin III under dreadwyrm do random summons. Imagine doing dreadwyrm and every ruin III is a random summon that does an attack like leviathan, ramuh, shiva, sephirot, ravana etc. Perhaps not perfect but I bet there would be a lot less complaints about not feeling like a summoner.

While I understand they want to go backwards to the old version of the job or the half assed version that was the FFXI summoner. The reality is, that old FFXIV Summoner was incredibly unpopular... and by all accounts weak. And I can personally vouch for how crappy the old FFXI Summoner was too.

Considering this is so much of the foundation of your argument you really should stop cause it just makes you look silly. You're using straw man arguments. People arn't asking for clones of ffxi's summoner or something. The thing is even if they were asking for near mechanical clones of ffxi's summoner they wouldn't also be asking for it to be underpowered. The mechanical abilities of a job are independent of it's power balance.

[Silverquick]

Considering this is so much of the foundation of your argument you really should stop cause it just makes you look silly. You're using straw man arguments. People arn't asking for clones of ffxi's summoner or something. The thing is even if they were asking for near mechanical clones of ffxi's summoner they wouldn't also be asking for it to be underpowered. The mechanical abilities of a job are independent of it's power balance.

Naw,

Its not making me look stupid at all... it may be a strawman, but after you've seen enough of these... just wait... soon the topic will drift there

You never asked yourself why a pair of WHMs would come complain about a DPS class did you?

[Yorumi]

Naw,

Its not making me look stupid at all... it may be a strawman, but after you've seen enough of these... just wait... soon the topic will drift there

You never asked yourself why a pair of WHMs would come complain about a DPS class did you?

By saying you're ok with a straw man you're quite literally saying you don't want a rational discussion.

[Silverquick]

By saying you're ok with a straw man you're quite literally saying you don't want a rational discussion.

No.. I just know that it was never intended as a rational discussion in the first place... it was just an agenda.

When actual SMNs come out and talk about things I generally give them an honest answer and did at first... but someone who doesn't even play the job is doing it. It's pretty suspect. And its not fooling anyone anymore.

And its always someone playing some other job doing this... not actual SMN's who are playing the job talking about that.

Those I actually respect, and have reason to.

[Dyvid]

You never asked yourself why a pair of WHMs would come complain about a DPS class did you?

These are the comments that bug me the most about your rebuttals. You just assume that someone who plays another job has never touched or main'ed SMN before. That "WHM" has more jobs at level 60 than you do including ACN. I would be willing to bet everyone at this discussion has ACN at 60. I changed my main class to Miner but do you honestly think that's my main?

[Silverquick]

These are the comments that bug me the most about your rebuttals. You just assume that someone who plays another job has never touched or main'ed SMN before. That "WHM" has more jobs at level 60 than you do including ACN. I would be willing to bet everyone at this discussion has ACN at 60.

Yeah but guess what there man...

That means jack diddly squat compared to the people who ARE maining it... and DO play it regularly...

I moonlight as a BLM... but I sure as hell don't run around telling them they should change the entire job because I don't like something a certain way.

How much arrogance does it take to do that?

[Yorumi]

Yeah but guess what there man...

That means jack diddly squat compared to the people who ARE maining it... and DO play it regularly...

I moonlight as a BLM... but I sure as hell don't run around telling them they should change the entire job because I don't like something a certain way.

How much arrogance does it take to do that?

This is ad hominem fallacy. I don't think you've made a valid and rational argument this entire thread. People also don't necessarily keep their main updated on the forums. I've personally gone through phases maining one job for months, deciding I wanted a chance of pace, and maining something else for months. It's also not hard to play multiple jobs. Beyond that you really don't need to know a job mechanically to comment on the aesthetics of a job. We're not talking about playing the job to it's maximum potential, we're talking cosmetics. For that it doesn't really matter how much someone has played the job. You're the one actually making a worthless contribution to the thread by continuing to spout one irrational statement after the next. it's rather childish to respond with essentially "oh yeah well I don't care what you have to say cause you didn't click a forum button to set your main job to summoner."

[Kaitoo]

snip

so you admitting that youre thread topic is nonsense and commits zero to anything then a baby tantrum

thanks for that

as in "i just want nukes that looks like summons" (which is btw. a lie, as in see the thread title which has nothingto do with that", it was already suggested that they could change simply the skin of one existing skill = topic closed

[Shurrikhan]

Still no one can argue with the fact the Heavenward changes have made the job incredibly popular and powerful now.

But, how much of that is definitively because we shifted power away from the concept of pets... as compared to, say, simply shifting it away from clunky systems and introducing macro-rotation (via Aethertrail in this case, but just as easily doable instead through meaningful pet mechanics and pet-swapping as to introduce multiple possibilities for overlying rotation in that way)?

The issue seems simply to be time and time again that SE is not willing to figure out how to make mobile AI units function well in their combat system. But that's a systemic issue, not a conceptual one. And the aesthetic of pet class does not actually even require persistent, hitboxed units.