So I'm not seeing how this is them changing things up from 2.0/3.0

[OcieKo]

Two weeks plus two weeks they used to "VACATION" and put off 3.1. Hmm they were not in 3.0 or they would have been playable at launch. But keep defending the whole 3.0 to 3.1. Nothing says fun like Aether and Neverreap for almost 4 weeks.

You mean two weeks to lvl and do some ex roulettes and get 1st tome set, then two weeks to Add in gordias norm and start towards weekly lockout 2nd tome set, then two weeks later to add gordias savage in. Honestly wasnt that painful, maybe if youre some purist who only plays one job, but i know in the head start + two weeks leadin up to gordias norm i lvld tank, healer, dps and geared them up. And unlike most who did the same i did the 3.0 MSQ thrice as well. It was a relatively good launch plan to avoid the rush to lvl cap and allow a good sized lvl 60 community in place for when harder content started.

[Moonlite]

You mean two weeks to lvl and do some ex roulettes and get 1st tome set, then two weeks to Add in gordias norm and start towards weekly lockout 2nd tome set, then two weeks later to add gordias savage in. Honestly wasnt that painful, maybe if youre some purist who only plays one job, but i know in the head start + two weeks leadin up to gordias norm i lvld tank, healer, dps and geared them up. And unlike most who did the same i did the 3.0 MSQ thrice as well. It was a relatively good launch plan to avoid the rush to lvl cap and allow a good sized lvl 60 community in place for when harder content started.

Yes that is how its remembered a magical time filled with overflowing game play. Not an empty wasteland of content after hitting 60.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

You mean two weeks to lvl and do some ex roulettes and get 1st tome set, then two weeks to Add in gordias norm and start towards weekly lockout 2nd tome set, then two weeks later to add gordias savage in. Honestly wasnt that painful, maybe if youre some purist who only plays one job, but i know in the head start + two weeks leadin up to gordias norm i lvld tank, healer, dps and geared them up. And unlike most who did the same i did the 3.0 MSQ thrice as well. It was a relatively good launch plan to avoid the rush to lvl cap and allow a good sized lvl 60 community in place for when harder content started.

Considering 3.1 is widely thought of as the worst patch since the 1.x era. I'd say... no, it wasn't a good launch plan. In fact, I would go one better and say that delay on top of Gordias being overtuned is what led to the substantial sub decline we saw. Looking back, 3.0 to 3.2 took eight months, releasing the following content:

- Alexander Gordias and its Savage Equivalent
- Four dungeons
- Void Ark
- Thordan EX
- Diadem
- Lord of Verminion
- Vanu Vanu Beast Tribe

That's... not much content to span eight months. Two were unanimous flops, one destroyed the raid scene and the devs later flatout admitted Void Ark was far too week. Full credit for the later recovery, but there's a big reason the devs have openly acknowledged they won't be taking an impromptu break this time around. And it's likely because their HW launch plan failed spectacularly.

[Ultimatecalibur]

Two weeks plus two weeks they used to "VACATION" and put off 3.1. Hmm they were not in 3.0 or they would have been playable at launch. But keep defending the whole 3.0 to 3.1. Nothing says fun like Aether and Neverreap for almost 4 weeks.

The Vacation happened after Gordias Savage and Sealed Rock were added. The two weeks then two week release pattern was for the playerbase's benefit not their own. They wanted players to enjoy the story and leveling experience rather than rush through it to grind endgame stuff. That would have happened had Gordias and Eso dropped on day 1.

Heck, 2.0 had a similar amount of content when (Adampor Keep and Wanderer's Palace were the only 2 "hard" mode dungeons until 2.1 dropped)

Yes that is how its remembered a magical time filled with overflowing game play. Not an empty wasteland of content after hitting 60.

I'm sorry you didn't level any other classes than Monk. 3.0 had plenty of gameplay. Most of it was not at Endgame. I spent most of those first few weeks leveling all 3 tanks to 60 and collecting the new gears sets.

The WoW "Only Endgame is important" mentality is an incredibly toxic.

[Moonlite]

Heck, 2.0 had a similar amount of content when (Adampor Keep and Wanderer's Palace were the only 2 "hard" mode dungeons until 2.1 dropped)

Most of it was not at Endgame. I spent most of those first few weeks leveling all 3 tanks to 60 and collecting the new gears sets.

The WoW "Only Endgame is important" mentality is an incredibly toxic.

First you are mistaken 2.0 had 2 dungeons but also had 2 8man dungeons. Literally double the amount of content. If I didn't say anything less then 4 before. Less then 4 is bad.

Second, I actually wanted to explore and loaf around gathering. Guess what, the gate to get into HW's wasn't the only MSQ gate. OK, I still have a couple zones to gather and craft from. Nope gathering with out flying is painful (put nicely). How hard can flying be to get? Do a couple quick quests and still fly around. Nope gated into MSQ and quest chains through out the zone. On day two of HW's I realized the development team was forcing us to do the zones.

It was simply faster to do all the MSQ and all the quests zone by zone. Gates open and flying open. They did plan the xp just right. If you did every quest you would hit 60 just as you got to gubal. So what did that exactly leave me? Zero quests in every zone right up to level 59. The fun of exploring lost because I was forced to quest to be able to go to zones. So I had fates and grind out the few dungeons. Maybe if the zones had twice the amount of quests or the whole flying didn't force me to try to do everyone. The game would have had more left.

When HW's launched I said it was an OK expansion. Between what we got on day one and what they added over eight months. I sadly find this the second worst expansion I had played. Other expansions have been bad. But I reserve the word hate for only two. Chains of Promathia which after I got to sea quit till Treasures (maybe my favorite or Lich king) and Heavensward.

[OcieKo]

If you including the end of msq quest for 2.0, the 3.0 had 3 4 man dungeons and an 8 man trial on day 1, not 2 dungeons. Still 4 pieces of endgame content, also wasnt bismarck and ravana ex already in on day 1? So that be 3 4 man dungeons and 3 8 man trials, which would add up to 6 pieces of lvl 60 content. Also you barely had to do a fraction of the sidequests to get all the aether currents, maybe 5/30 per zone, its better now that theyre on the first in the chains but still. MSQ gave you 3/5 currents and in AL you got all of em just from the MSQ. I had to do most of the sidequest on future jobs because i just didnt need them to lvl up. Before you say took my time and did daily roulette, my first 60 was PLD on the morning of the official release. Farming gear pretty much accomodated most of the xp needed.

[Nominous]

It's not that we expect a new game, but there are just certain things you can really only do so much of before it gets tiresome to some.

I want to know what games people are playing for thousands of hours that don't end up feeling stale.

Anyways... Other things exist. When you inevitably grow tired of this game, like any other game you spend months (if not years) on, you should take a break. You will force yourself to burn out, and come to conclusions like this.

Further, the core mechanics and gameplay loops are defining characteristics for this medium. Ours just so happen to be GCD/Alt-Tab combat, Tomestone/Gear treadmills, and aesthetics. If it doesn't fall into those categories, it's just fluff and distractions. And in regards to those extras and tangents, more is not always better either, especially if it's at the cost of quality. But ultimately, if you want a sweeping change to the core, you want a different game entirely. There's nothing wrong with admitting that, and finding what you're currently wanting in another game or medium.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

If you including the end of msq quest for 2.0, the 3.0 had 3 4 man dungeons and an 8 man trial on day 1, not 2 dungeons. Still 4 pieces of endgame content, also wasnt bismarck and ravana ex already in on day 1? So that be 3 4 man dungeons and 3 8 man trials, which would add up to 6 pieces of lvl 60 content. Also you barely had to do a fraction of the sidequests to get all the aether currents, maybe 5/30 per zone, its better now that theyre on the first in the chains but still. MSQ gave you 3/5 currents and in AL you got all of em just from the MSQ. I had to do most of the sidequest on future jobs because i just didnt need them to lvl up. Before you say took my time and did daily roulette, my first 60 was PLD on the morning of the official release. Farming gear pretty much accomodated most of the xp needed.

You cannot include 3.0 content in the delay between patch cycles because we paid an additional $40 for it. What I listed above released in the subsequent eight month span and it simply wasn't enough. At no other point did the game suffer such a massive drought, though that is primarily because nearly half of what did release fell flat on its face. Like I said, the fact the devs specifically announced they will not take a break like that without better preparation speaks volumes. They wouldn't say it had things gone well.

I'm sorry you didn't level any other classes than Monk. 3.0 had plenty of gameplay. Most of it was not at Endgame. I spent most of those first few weeks leveling all 3 tanks to 60 and collecting the new gears sets.

The WoW "Only Endgame is important" mentality is an incredibly toxic.

This is always a silly argument. Someone who has no interest playing certain jobs won't see leveling them as content because... well, it isn't. I mean, think about it. Would you consider doing someone you don't like/have no interest in fun?

[azura84]

I want to know what games people are playing for thousands of hours that don't end up feeling stale.

Anyways... Other things exist. When you inevitably grow tired of this game, like any other game you spend months (if not years) on, you should take a break.

Further, the core mechanics and gameplay loops are defining characteristics for this medium. Ours just so happen to be GCD/Alt-Tab combat, Tomestone/Gear treadmills, and aesthetics. If it doesn't fall into those categories, it's just fluff and distractions. And in regards to those extras and tangents, more is not always better either, especially if it's at the cost of quality. But ultimately, if you want a sweeping change to the core, you want a different game entirely. There's nothing wrong with admitting that, and finding what you're currently wanting in another game or medium.

It's really a matter of peoples opinion at this point, gamers are aging and those of us who play MMOs aren't all young and have nostalgia for certain types of things, where as more and more games tend to be grinding towards a sort of money making sweet spot. Many of us who are used to broader strokes in development for MMOs. Personally I like to see more open world content and that's my opinion, I like to see more difficulty in defeating regular content rather than it be just breezetown up until the very last stuff (and even that gets easy after they release the level cap a few months into a new expansion). I would welcome lower level dungeons that offer gear that scales with level, some content that drives us to look back at older gear that could be useful in these capped dungeons. Stuff like that, but that's my opinion. I know many people like and prefer this vertical progression and wouldn't get much out of the change in pace or types of gameplay. Like i said originally it's really just a big shmorgishborg of player preferences blending from past MMOs. I came from XI if that wasn't apparent simply by my opinions.

[Berethos]

You cannot include 3.0 content in the delay between patch cycles because we paid an additional $40 for it.

Looks like their response was aimed at Moonlite and their claim that 3.0 launched with only 2 pieces of end-game content, rather than yours about the delays and content added up through 3.2.