Why are summoners so neglected?

[Silverquick]

Which you still haven't actually explained how that works differently than for my set-up which ends up in exactly the same place with dot duration remaining after the same time spent but with less cd duration remaining and more dps outputted.

Translation: You can't understand the difference between on paper... and in reality...

Got it...

[Mhaeric]

Translation: You can't understand the difference between on paper... and in reality...

Got it...

In reality I have zero trouble maintaining dots at all times, despite not using your opener.

Edit: I've also just now done some more research, and every single opener guide I can find shows contagion being used inside the Dreadwyrm Trance effect, so I'm definitely going to stick with that. Done responding to you.

[Silverquick]

In reality I have zero trouble maintaining dots at all times, despite not using your opener.

Edit: I've also just now done some more research, and every single opener guide I can find shows contagion being used inside the Dreadwyrm Trance effect, so I'm definitely going to stick with that. Done responding to you.

Well that's Cool,

But... I don't just blindly follow someone else's guide... I actually try it and see if it works.

If it works sometimes, but not all the time... due to circumstances like, say... major AoEs or mechanics in a fight hosing up your rotation... and forcing you to move with Tri-Disaster on CD and no DoTs on target... (because it is a 60 second CD, and Contagion only extended your DoTs to 30 seconds)... well then...

I file it under the.... Tactically doable,

....but situational with risk... and a judgement call.

[Dyvid]

Erm... keep it the way it is. Anything else is too much of an overhaul for something that isn't actually broken. Also, we've seen how much the addition of 5 abilities (or heck, even 1: hi WP Bards!) can change a class significantly from one expansion to the next, so it will be interesting to see what the next 5 abilities in SB will bring to SMN. I suspect something to make single target damage have a bit more oomph, like maybe a single target trance finisher option.

Well I think the question is should SE make the job pet based like it was designed in ARR or go with the spell base trance in 3.0? It's true SMN functions and provides DPS but it's the unclear design going forward that is making people mad. Personally I want them to pick one or the other, and then go all in with that choice. If it's pet then find a way to add more pets and a way to make them all useful. If it's spells then drop the pets, readjust ability damage to make up for dps lose, and summons to call / release. FYI: don't get me started on the boneheaded decision with Bards, a party attack bonus song would have easily increased dps and still feel like a bard but I digress.

Personally I hate the trance and stop play SMN shortly after 3.0. I main'ed MCH because the turrets where more in line with how I wanted pets meaning I had a turret for AoE situations and one for single target needs; plus I was actively swapping them out. I didn't love the job though and found myself playing less in 3.0 than I did in 2.0. I know SE is just going to double down on trance and don't even expect new glamour egi for 4.0 so I guess I'll try RDM / SAM and hopefully find a job that makes me want to log in and play again.

[Mhaeric]

Personally I hate the trance and stop play SMN shortly after 3.0. I main'ed MCH because the turrets where more in line with how I wanted pets meaning I had a turret for AoE situations and one for single target needs; plus I was actively swapping them out. I didn't love the job though and found myself playing less in 3.0 than I did in 2.0. I know SE is just going to double down on trance and don't even expect new glamour egi for 4.0 so I guess I'll try RDM / SAM and hopefully find a job that makes me want to log in and play again.

I'm actually the opposite. I always liked the concept of SMN even in 2.0, but didn't really feel like I contributed anything back then since there wasn't a lot of actual damage numbers flying on the screen from it, and certainly not big ones except for the very occasional fester crit. It just felt like a very passive job, and thus boring. BLM was much more satisfying in 2.0 for me, particularly since it was hard to screw up as a BLM the rotation was so simple.

In 3.0, however, Trance has given SMN a very active and fun feel to me with some consistently big numbers and exciting burst phases, while BLM, even though the numbers are still very big and exciting, feels like I'm always on the edge of my seat terrified of losing Enochian and is therefore now less fun.

I'm too am hoping to switch to RDM main in 4.0, because it really looks fun and seems to have a similar burst phase to what SMN has now, but if I suck at it or don't like it as much as I thought I would then I'll probably go back to having SMN as my main dps since I do like the trance mechanic.

[Remus]

Trance is the best thing to happen to SMN, actually made it fun to play. Hope they continue forward with this.

[Neela]

Well I think the question is should SE make the job pet based like it was designed in ARR or go with the spell base trance in 3.0? It's true SMN functions and provides DPS but it's the unclear design going forward that is making people mad. Personally I want them to pick one or the other, and then go all in with that choice. If it's pet then find a way to add more pets and a way to make them all useful. If it's spells then drop the pets, readjust ability damage to make up for dps lose, and summons to call / release.

first of all I like the current smn system with egi & personal skills. I would love if they would let be trance like it is. it's about Bahamuts wrath hm? they shouldn't mix that up with other primals or backgrounds. on the otherhand I would love to see more interaction via the egi-system itself.

Personally I hate the trance and stop play SMN shortly after 3.0. I main'ed MCH because the turrets where more in line with how I wanted pets meaning I had a turret for AoE situations and one for single target needs; plus I was actively swapping them out.

i don't feel that turrets are pets at all... even less interaction than with egis/fairys... for me it's just one more oGCD. For me a pet-cls should be based on the pet itself with way more variety than just buff them (MCH) or release ONE aoe atk every 3 mins (SMN)...

I don't meant to implement more different egis (although that would be really nice) but more skills and more personality to those. either like someone said early reducing the cd from enkindle and giving them a more "summon-like" animation like Deathflare/Terraflare (Yuna Dissidia) -> this would at least give the cls a more core related feeling of its own – or what I ever dreamed off since I saw it the first time after release: change the egi-system to a system like the PotD Manticore pot-system - controllable egis for a certain amount of time with a trance-finisher-ability before it's over (Yuna FF-X) <3

[TripPsyc]

I've actually never felt the need to have summoner player like 10 or 11, only rather be more pet focused as a whole to give meaning to the actually identity of being a "pet class." I feel the job should of had its damage split 50/50 between person and avatar/egi. The Dreadywrm stance was a nice direction change from sliding it away from arcanist sub class. If they don't plan to move more on that direction they could differ from scholar by adding traits to the current spell list for example:
Contagion=Base SMN spell not pet skill
Bio=dot damage increases damage done by summons by 10%
BioII=decreases damage resistance from avatars 10%
Miasma=decreases magic resistance done by avatars 10% for Garuda out, decreases physical resistance by 10% if Ifrit out.
Miasma II=Applys dot restoring hp to summon and summoner with every hit done by egi.
Enkendle: Signature Pet attack can be executed once all 4 dots on target.

I mean these are just example on the top of my head haven't taken balance into factor yet.

[Wobi]

I've actually never felt the need to have summoner player like 10 or 11, only rather be more pet focused as a whole to give meaning to the actually identity of being a "pet class." I feel the job should of had its damage split 50/50 between person and avatar/egi.

Therein lies the problem, you end up having to rework the entire class, you certainly cannot just buff pet abilities because given that most of them happen automatically even bad players would get a damage increase. The alternative is to split the micro-managing between the Summoner and pet, this could be difficult for console players given how the pet hotbar is.

[Ririta]

Therein lies the problem, you end up having to rework the entire class, you certainly cannot just buff pet abilities because given that most of them happen automatically even bad players would get a damage increase. The alternative is to split the micro-managing between the Summoner and pet, this could be difficult for console players given how the pet hotbar is.

They want to lower the gap between good and bad players, allowing the egi to deal a higher % of damage would help with that objective.