SE Please add jump and swiming

[IveraIvalice]

Ok look, this is for all people against jumping. I'll use the same argument i used before and i want someone to tell me why they disagree or why it wouldn't apply to FFXIV. "it looks stupid" will not be accepted.

a 2011 FPS like MW3, doesn't need jump. I can imagine the game without it, but does that mean that it wouldn't improve it? Does that mean that all the mechanics attached to it and the freedom of movement it gives you is pointless? I think not. IF EA makes Battlefield 4, has the most insane graphics and physics engine the world has ever seen but they didn't add jump, nor do you have a HUD or ragdoll physics or blood when shooting enemies. Do you think that the gamers and the critics would forgive them? Do you think that the game would be more attractive than Activision's offering who incorporates all these gameplay feature which add to the fun factor and overall experience just because it has slightly better graphics or physics?

Just like BMW's new car won't be liked if it didn't have cup holders, AC, ABS, Cruise control, electric windows but instead let you walk right through it's doors like pure magic.

You just don't put yourself below competition from the start. You don't innovate or move forward by sticking to what worked for you 10 years ago. Apple's products wouldn't be so popular if they always did the same thing over and over again. The ipod didn't need a touch screen to play music but having one made it hell lot better.

You can't take a look at some gameplay aspects that everyone else is using for a good reason and dismiss it with comments like it looks stupid. If the way the others made it looks stupid, then it is up to you to make it better and that is an advantage you will have over everyone else. Refusing to use something because someone else didn't make good use of it just leaves you with a product that is actually worst and lacking compared to the other comapany's less then optimal attempt.

i agree that if one company can do it better that will be fine. but thats why we are having this converstion to help them make it better for everyone. and thats why im promoting people to compromise.
referencing games like MW3 or Battlefield isnt helping any, and is not much of a valid point because thats a completely different game type. if your playing a game where you run around and shoot, you will probably need to jump because thats what the game type is based around, thats the core mechanics of the game.
but an MMO does not need jump. its an added feature that is not required to play the game. so since jump is just icing on the cake, it can be done in many different ways, and it CAN interfere with the Core intent of the game. (to be an RPG, and a good story RPG) by breaking immersion, thats why if its going to be done, we just want it to be done right or not be done at all.

[Onidemon]

i agree that if one company can do it better that will be fine. but thats why we are having this converstion to help them make it better for everyone. and thats why im promoting people to compromise.
referencing games like MW3 or Battlefield isnt helping any, and is not much of a valid point because thats a completely different game type. if your playing a game where you run around and shoot, you will probably need to jump because thats what the game type is based around, thats the core mechanics of the game.
but an MMO does not need jump. its an added feature that is not required to play the game. so since jump is just icing on the cake, it can be done in many different ways, and it CAN interfere with the Core intent of the game. (to be an RPG, and a good story RPG) by breaking immersion, thats why if its going to be done, we just want it to be done right or not be done at all.

How does a feature which is part of the real world and that would only add to the realistic part of the game and add yet another dimension to gameplay break immersion?

[IveraIvalice]

How does a feature which is part of the real world and that would only add to the realistic part of the game and add yet another dimension to gameplay break immersion?

it could be done so that it wont break immersion. but its because of the bunny hop look. that would be the bad way to do it.
it is something that is part of the real world i agree, but how often do you jump in your daily life? in the same way do you jump over a fence in your way or do you climb over it?
there are just ways to do it right and ways to do it wrong, spamming the jump button would be a way to do it wrong. thats what breaks immersion but if there was just climb over something or jump in specific spots it would be fine with me.
it may be time consuming but its all about doing it right. just getting things in game without polish is what got us FFXIV at launch.

[IveraIvalice]

I hate immature WoW kiddies cooking around me. Culinarians break my immersion. Go back to WoW you stupid immature Culinarian kiddies! Only 13 year old WoW kiddies want to cook food. They keep spamming cooking and it's breaking my immersion and makes me want to die inside.

(wow, you can basically just use this argument to prove anything, can't you?)

Chocobos ruin my immersion! They are so yellow and immature and people keep spamming them around me and it's breaking my immersion! I dont want to see people riding a big yellow bird! wtf it's so stupid!

See?

wow, chocobos in a final fantasy game, that would break immersion. go on, i would love to hear what else you can come up with

[ellohwell]

wow, chocobos in a final fantasy game, that would break immersion. go on, i would love to hear what else you can come up with

"wow,jump in a final fantasy game, that would break immersion. go on, i would love to hear what else you can come up with"

[options]

I hate immature WoW kiddies cooking around me. Culinarians break my immersion. Go back to WoW you stupid immature Culinarian kiddies! Only 13 year old WoW kiddies want to cook food. They keep spamming cooking and it's breaking my immersion and makes me want to die inside.

(wow, you can basically just use this argument to prove anything, can't you?)



Chocobos ruin my immersion! They are so yellow and immature and people keep spamming them around me and it's breaking my immersion! I dont want to see people riding a big yellow bird! wtf it's so stupid!

See?

I have to agree with this. You know what breaks my immersion. Running through gridania and all of a sudden my character is running on the same spot. I suddenly have to change my camera angle to a position above my head to see over the brush to spot the log that is blocking my path. So I have to run around it. My immersion broken. When simply i could of pressed a button to jump over it. The immersion argument is crap. You can use it for or against jump.

[IveraIvalice]

i would like to know exactly why people want jump.
just because it should be expected or people want it kuz its 2012 isnt a reason. there has to be a legitimate reason, like so we can jump over little things in the way so we dont have to walk around them, valid


also the same about why we dont want jump.
i will say personally, it breaks immersion.

[Onidemon]

i would like to know exactly why people want jump.
just because it should be expected or people want it kuz its 2012 isnt a reason. there has to be a legitimate reason, like so we can jump over little things in the way so we dont have to walk around them, valid


also the same about why we dont want jump.
i will say personally, it breaks immersion.

It adds to the gameplay and this is how.

- First it removes that feeling that you're glued to the ground, you start feeling a bit more freedom in your movement.
- If you want to jump off that cliff instead of going all the way around, with jump you can.
- If you want to jump back up on that cliff by jumping from ledge to ledge all the way up you also can. Yes they can remove invisible walls but as far as immersion goes, does it look more realistic to simply walk up a cliff like spiderman or to jump from ledge to ledge?

- it can add to battle gameplay too. First it can be used to cancel spells that are in progress. Your casting a protective spell that takes 3-4sec but just got hit with shit load of damage and need healing. Do you wait that 4 sec or do you jump cancel and cure right away?
- a boss has a move that does a shockwave on the ground, you can jump at the right moment to avoid it.
- Lancers can jump and while in mid air use a diving ability. The ability will have 2 min cooldown so lancers don't constantly jump.


- a new area could be designed with floating islands, with small pieces of land floating around and you will need to jump from one to another to get around. It gives the developers yet another tool/dimension and way of thinking to let their imagination flow when designing areas.

- again in battle mechanics(this might be pushed a bit far but..) if someone classes have a low swinging motion for some moves, you could avoid these by jumping... adding yet another layer of gameplay to PVP other then just who pushes buttons faster and who has better gear.

- some NM and Bosses could allow you to jump on their backs, walk up to their head and strike for maximum damage, or be the only way melee classes can damage that specific boss/nm. This can even be action based, as in push the jump button at the right moment to allow for a automated jump animation of your character and see him climb up the monster's back.

Now for the abuse part. Jump can have it's own stamina bar, just like swimming to add some realism. You jump and it depletes your stamina bar, which is recharging slowly, preventing you to jump non-stop like a bunny. 3 Jump in a row and your glued to the ground for the next 10-15 sec.

I'm sure some people can come up with other good examples i haven't thought of but seriously, in order to be successful in such a competing market, you need to think outside the box.

[IveraIvalice]

It adds to the gameplay and this is how.

- First it removes that feeling that you're glued to the ground, you start feeling a bit more freedom in your movement.
- If you want to jump off that cliff instead of going all the way around, with jump you can.
- If you want to jump back up on that cliff by jumping from ledge to ledge all the way up you also can. Yes they can remove invisible walls but as far as immersion goes, does it look more realistic to simply walk up a cliff like spiderman or to jump from ledge to ledge?

- it can add to battle gameplay too. First it can be used to cancel spells that are in progress. Your casting a protective spell that takes 3-4sec but just got hit with shit load of damage and need healing. Do you wait that 4 sec or do you jump cancel and cure right away?
- a boss has a move that does a shockwave on the ground, you can jump at the right moment to avoid it.
- Lancers can jump and while in mid air use a diving ability. The ability will have 2 min cooldown so lancers don't constantly jump.


- a new area could be designed with floating islands, with small pieces of land floating around and you will need to jump from one to another to get around. It gives the developers yet another tool/dimension and way of thinking to let their imagination flow when designing areas.

- again in battle mechanics(this might be pushed a bit far but..) if someone classes have a low swinging motion for some moves, you could avoid these by jumping... adding yet another layer of gameplay to PVP other then just who pushes buttons faster and who has better gear.

- some NM and Bosses could allow you to jump on their backs, walk up to their head and strike for maximum damage, or be the only way melee classes can damage that specific boss/nm. This can even be action based, as in push the jump button at the right moment to allow for a automated jump animation of your character and see him climb up the monster's back.

Now for the abuse part. Jump can have it's own stamina bar, just like swimming to add some realism. You jump and it depletes your stamina bar, which is recharging slowly, preventing you to jump non-stop like a bunny. 3 Jump in a row and your glued to the ground for the next 10-15 sec.

I'm sure some people can come up with other good examples i haven't thought of but seriously, in order to be successful in such a competing market, you need to think outside the box.

most of that was valid and i agree with most of it, such as it adding a new dimension of creativity to the creators, i personally agree with that because i myself am a 3D artist going into the gaming industry, and you could see why immersion would be important to an artist.

some things i wouldnt agree with such as jumping on an enemy to do maximum damage, because then thats a different game type. its not an MMORPG anymore, its an ActionMMO, and to me doesnt fit with the game.

i would also disagree with jumping to cancel a spell or action because thats very unatural. there are ways to cancel actions and commands now that work, however all ideas are welcome.
again, personal opinions here.