An Earnest Plea From Your Dearest Friend, The BLM In Your Party OR Precasting And You

[Wyndam]

I get what you're saying, but... I gotta agree with Rongway. This is the reason tanking for pick ups is stressful. This is why there aren't more tanks. While you may perhaps believe you are an attentive person there may be things you don't know and the majority of DPS won't stop themselves before pulling the boss. Fresh into a dungeon with 3 random strangers I don't know you. I don't trust you. I have to assume you're going to make a mess and that you have no self control. I don't save the DPS who pulls for that person's sake. I save him for the party and the rest of the group's sake. The healer will probably try to save the guy that pulled or the other DPS may jump in and then it's a bad time for everyone. So I'll be a good sport about it and intervene but too many runs like that and I'm exhausted and done for the night.

If it isn't a fight with a tight DPS check, no, I'm not going to stop for a countdown. I'm going to keep that momentum going and I'm just going to run straight in. Unless of course I need to stop because someone's AFK, mana, buffs, or I'm typing because I have a question about the boss we're about to fight.

[SkeletonDad]

Fresh into a dungeon with 3 random strangers I don't know you. I don't trust you.

I feel like this might be where people are having trouble agreeing with me. When I enter into any dungeon or instance, I have implicit trust that people will do the job they queued for, unless they display in some form otherwise. I can't imagine how stressful it would be to queue for a dungeon where you genuinely don't fully believe that people will fulfill the barest minimum requirement for their role.

[Instrumentality]

It's a roulette, though.

Don't play worse because other people are playing worse or lazy.

[Rongway]

Don't play worse because other people are playing worse or lazy.

Assuming your pace is the only pace is playing worse.

The roulettes exist to accommodate the varied needs of a varied player base. If you want to run with an exacting level of specification, form a complete party so you don't have to play with people who don't meet your specifications.

[Instrumentality]

Assuming your pace is the only pace is playing worse.

The roulettes exist to accommodate the varied needs of a varied player base. If you want to run with an exacting level of specification, form a complete party so you don't have to play with people who don't meet your specifications.

I don't bother making excuses for other players. Neither should you.

[Esp]

I don't have buddy BLMs...

Buddy SMNs however.. xD

[HyoMinPark]

While I appreciate what the intent of this post is supposed to be, it also stands to reason that Duty Finder is 3/7/23 randoms and you (unless you have queued in with friends or as a pre-made for something). You have to expect a reasonable amount of difference with regards to skill and playstyle when playing with that many randoms. Having an implicit trust that they will perform their jobs' basic descriptions is fine, but don't have your trust or expectations too high. You can easily meet people from Savage raiders decked out in full BiS that have optimal rotations all the way to the other end of the spectrum: players that play casually, don't have the best/most optimal rotation, and that aren't in 260+ gear, but rather maybe 230 or below. And everyone has to adjust their playstyles accordingly when playing with randoms, if for nothing else but to just make things less stressful. I certainly do not like throttling my own DPS when I am on BRD; I would rather go all out regardless of content just because I want to. However, sometimes I have to adjust, because as much as I dislike holding back, I dislike getting punched in the face by a boss more. And it's not always the fault of the tank either, if I severely outgear them or if they are new to the duty and hesitant (obviously if they are not new, geared, and just doing a poor job, that's different but I digress).

I'll speak from my own tanking experience: I dislike tanking with too many randoms in roulettes. Because I have either gotten healers that think they queued in with a red icon, and forgot what "Cure" does, or DPS that are deadweights or go ham on things before I even pull them (or my favorite: when they bring me presents in the form of more mobs). I can have a little bit of patience, but my patience runs thin after a couple runs of this. Thus, I usually only tank in premades just to save myself the agitation. Though I have taken recently to tanking in 24-mans, be it solo or premade (see below).

I don't instantly pull upon reaching the boss. I don't stand around for 30 seconds or longer either. However, if I see that my healer needs a bit more MP, I wait for them. Or if I see a DPS standing outside the boss room, or with the DC symbol next to their name, I try to wait and give them a little time to catch up. If anyone (healer or DPS) decides that they will pull before me, then I don't bother saving them from their inevitable demise. It's just the general disrespect that they showed that makes me react that way. Like today, my co-tank in Alexander disconnected. I wanted to wait at least a minute or so to see if they came back, because I was sure they didn't intentionally disconnect. And I stated as much in the party chat. However, the SCH in the group wasn't having any of that, and pulled the boss anyways. My co-tank never returned, but I still wanted to at least give them a small window of time. That's just the polite thing to do.

If a tank stands at the boss for a minute or more, in a roulette, yes, that's unnecessary and excessive unless they are new to the duty, or explicitly say "Wait just a second" for whatever reason (be it waiting for a cooldown that will be back in 30 seconds or less, or if they have to AFK for a solid reason). I had a new tank while farming Gubal HM today; politely just explained boss mechanics, and waited for them to make the first move, because I could see their hesitation (plus both DPS were in full BiS, so they'd already been struggling for aggro the entire run). I'd rather a new tank go when they're ready as opposed to when a DPS or healer think they should be ready. Because most new tanks tend to already be nervous in new duties, so I'd rather make their roulette as easy as possible (I remember the New Tank Anxiety quite well myself). We already have a shortage of tanks in this game, and I'd rather not make that pool shrink any further.

The only time I get impatient is during 24-mans when you have 3 tanks (none new) that all stand there in their DPS stance because none of them want to MT. Especially if I have precasted my shields/buffs or have drawn a second Balance to spread to the party, and they stand there so long that it expires. In that case, yeah, I can get a bit antsy and want to pull. But I try to refrain from that out of respect. This is basically why I've taken to tanking 24-mans sometimes rather than running as my usual BRD or AST. Because if the other two tanks won't man up, then I will. There's just no reason for the entire alliance to have to stand there just because the tanks don't want to shoulder the responsibility of MT.

I understand where your post is coming from OP. Just consider the other sides as well.

[SyzzleSpark]

I'm sure other people have said this but 90% of these problems can be solved with a simple ready check and countdown.

If the content is not generally something you would expect a ready check/countdown for (i.e. a boss in Sastasha)... or if you have some other reason to believe a countdown isn't going to happen, then you need to just wait for/verbally prompt the tank to pull.

Most tanks also don't know that you can get within Lob/Hawk/Unmend range without face-pulling the boss, and therefore have no need to run up from the back of the room when the countdown is hitting zero and your BLM's first cast is landing.

[RopeDrink]

Whole thing reminds me of a situation from a short while ago. Nothing annoys me more than people chomping at the bit like the world will end in the next 5 seconds, enough to plough ahead of me (while I'm tanking) to start things for me. Yes Mr.Monk, I know you're gagging to charge in and try to save your greased lightning stacks, but the Healer behind you is looking a bit drained on MP thanks to all the hastiness, so when you decide to go balls deep while everyone else stops for their sake, enjoy your raise - it's not a tanks job to save people from being a self-absorbed pleb, or to twist themselves around an individuals desired pace for the sake of a few extra seconds killing trash. When I'm playing Monk, I don't feel the need to vent whenever things are going slow enough for me to lose efficiency/stacks between packs. I'll deal with it and keep it in mind if anyone decides to crunch numbers about DPS (which, in Duty Finder, most don't unless there's an attempted 'one-up' flame war - which isn't worth anyone's time).

If this sort of thing truly bugs you in DF (which will always be variable groups with variable paces and expectations), say it at the start of the dungeon. Threads like this simply paint you in a less-than-positive light.

[Acidblood]

Honestly OP, as someone who plays a Tank, a Healer, and BLM on a regular basis, if you started pre-casting before the Tank was ready to pull I would let the boss eat your face if for no other reason than to try and teach you a lesson...

Anyway, I sort of get where you are coming from, but there are plenty of good reasons to stop for a few seconds before certain pulls / boss fights; not the least of which is doing a quick check to make sure everyone is present and ready (you'd be surprised how many times someone is lagging behind, or very low on MP / TP from the previous encounter).

Also, someone pulling ahead of the Tank doesn't do anyone any favours, and usually just make things harder and slower... i.e. yes, you can take a hit before you die, but now the Tank has to waste time chasing and re-positioning the boss, the Healer has to waste time (and MP) healing you, and the other DPS can't fully engage for risk of pulling aggro off you and causing even more chaos...

Edit: And if you are really that impatient to charge in, just play a Tank