What is so bad about FFXI?

[Shipp]

They'd be doing pretty much this by adding what's "standard" and being creative with it, so either way you look at it, it's exactly what they should have done.

Since this seems to get ignored and people will continue to say soandso wants a FFXI-2:

No one wants a FFXI-2, but what's being stated is there was zero reason to not use the basics and build off of it, making it better, like Square usually did with their games.



That's the problem though -- it has to be better than it's predecessor, yet it wasn't simply because they threw out everything they've learned, since in reality, XIV's predecessors were Final Fantasy XI and Front Mission Online, meaning not only did they produce and operate 2 MMOs prior to XIV, they also had the basics present and shown between just those two MMOs they've learned something (FMO's launch was a lot smoother than XI's and the basics were a lot more stable.)

Then comes XIV...which felt like they've learned nothing at all. XI wasn't a perfect game, but the simple fact remains: They could have easily took what worked with XI and made it better, like a lot of people were expecting them to do. Innovation is fine, but even Edison basically took something that already existed and made it better which is still thought of as innovative -- You can't innovate if you don't even properly incorporate the basics.

The only people who fear XIV being "like FFXI" should also fear XIV being like every other MMORPG if they incoporate the standards, because there would be absolutely no different. MMOs uses Instances as a main form of content these days, XIV is starting to incorporate them, that basically means it's copying every other MMO, yet people seem to be ok with that.

The ONLY WAY FFXIV could EVER become FFXI-2 is if Eorzea vanishes and we're brought back into Vanadiel.

For once, I actually agree with you. They just tried way too much to make players know that this isn't anything to do with XI, yet they failed in obvious places. Adding the exact same races, yet renaming them was a stupid decision. Yeah, those Lalafells are nothing like Tarutarus...

In other aspects, they DIDN'T copy needed aspects, like a working and intuitive party search system. It was apparently much more important to copy the races over and rename them (so nobody would think this was a sequel) then to copy over basic aspects like a party search function that actually is worth a crap like XI's and then expand upon it and make it even better.

They spent too much time on making the graphics and copying aspects of XI, yet none of the important aspects. Honestly, if this game would have featured nothing but humans as the only playable race, yet brought over all of the expected basic functions - AH, mailbox, party search (that is actually worth using), fun combat, quests, intuitive UI - this game would have been 100x better.

I'm glad Yoshi took over, because instead of reinventing the wheel and the outcome being a square, he seems to be chiseling that square so it eventually becomes a circle that everyone can finally cycle on. I don't know what happened in the 5 years XIV was in development before launch, but Tanaka or whoever was ordering him around must have been comatose or severely deluded to think they were ever going to be successful.

[indira]

nothing, BUT the only thing was the amount of loot you got was almost nothing and money was harder to make than working a real job, other than that it was fine.
FFXI was the only MMO i played for years, now im hoping this is the next one.

[Quanta]

The problem largely lay in people wanting everything to come to them without effort or initiative on their part (as is the case with a lot of gamers these days, is it not?).

Bullshit. For me, a lot of it had to do with the fact that, after a time, nobody was using the seeking system anymore to express their intent to actually, you know, want to party and gain exp. It rendered the system useless for the purposes of recruitment, leaving the only recourse to bother as many people as possible until you managed to form a group. I got plenty of requests to group from random strangers while I played, and I turned many of them down. The problem? I wasn't flagged, so why the fuck were you asking me to group with you when there were usually a half-dozen other folks with their flags up looking to gain exp that day?

Things ultimately fell apart for me because the system as designed didn't work as it was supposed to, and I didn't want to bother the people who didn't have their flag up as I had no way to gauge their intent or desires beforehand; I could either get lucky and they actually did want to group, or I could get a "No thanks" and resume the search, or I could get a "Fuck off" and feel bad 'cuz I obviously bothered someone.

In short, the system that told people "Yeah, sure, I'd like to group" was at odds with the social dynamics of the game's players, putting people who didn't understand those dynamics at a disadvantage when forming groups for pretty much everything in the game. If people had actually used the tool instead of going "Well, I'm sure some random stranger will ask me to do stuff at some point, or maybe I'll ask random strangers myself regardless of interest," people might have enjoyed FFXI better than they did. Fuck your initiative, you insensitive prick.

[Antonn]

What was good about XI?


The only thing that made FFXI were the tight knit communities. Beyond that XI was a below average MMO & that's being generous.

[Gasher]

What was good about XI?

I could name a million things. Because of this I will name only one.

The game had a deep (very deep) sense of accomplishment. And no; not (only) because of it's often repetetive nature. But because it managed, in part thanks to a demanding playing environment, to balance casual rewards frequently, decent rewards regularly and lastly epic rewards only after a truly epic efforts.

Is that what FFXIV should be about to a greater extent? I sure hope so... but I would never expect anyone else to want that. It's just my humble opinion.

[Reliquia]

Reading through this thread it's quite evident that there are very strong opinions regarding this matter from both sides, I believe that the responses also a strong representation of our players feel in general about FFXI, FFXIV and both in respect to each other.

overall I have found that:

1) Many players who play FFXIV today has a previous connection to FFXI.

Of this I am not surprised, after all the game was a great success and there is a very large market for the Final Fantasy brand. This is why it's important for this game to stay true to the entire franchise, and this is the biggest appeal that this MMO has. That's not to say that it can't improve on other aspects as well, but having the Final fantasy feeling should be priority nr 1, then comes the development and innovation of it. Make the world and the settings unique, and tie them up to the Final Fantasy franchise.

2) The largest portion of those who have had a prior connection to FFXI are very fond of it, and they want this game to take a lot of notice, but they also want it to be very different.

That is to say that they don't want a blatant copy or a FFXI-2. But they want a game that feels very similar and utilizes the same aspects that are considered very successful and unique.

3) There is a minority that either doesn't have a positive experience from FFXI or did have a positive experience but wants the game to be pretty much the same but in an updated and new version.


Conclusion.
I strongly advice the developers to take a note from what's been said in this thread. Because as I said previously, the largest appeal that this game has it's that it is a Final Fantasy game.

The Final Fantasy single player games have been a mayor success through most of the video game history. FFXI was also not only a very successful game, but also a very successful MMO. This is where the clear majority of their market lies (both the FF gamers and the FFXI gamers), because the average MMO player will most likely be gone when the next big thing comes along, while the previous mentioned gamers will stick to it for years to come.

And this statement I will argument yet again with FFXI, because even though it's been a very successful MMO and yet not as successful as World of Warcraft, the servers are still up, the subscription are still rolling and content is still being added to keep it's players busy. Almost 10 years after release, and look at how much the video game industry has massively developed since then. However, FFXI is now in a declining phase, this is a mayor opportunity for SE to recruit them into yet a new Final Fantasy Massive Multiplayer Online Game.

Therefore it is important not only that this game stays true to it's Final Fantasy identity, but it is also crucial that the developers take note of what FFXI did right and look how they can innovate and build on those ideas.

This is the essence of this thread.

[Isaveron]

The game had a deep (very deep) sense of accomplishment.

No it really didn't. The game was filled with so many time sinks designed to waste your time, when you actually did something you rarely feel a sense of accomplishment, you breathe a sigh of relief. There was nothing deep about the game.

[Jennestia]

No it really didn't. The game was filled with so many time sinks designed to waste your time

Like all MMOs or else they wouldn't last longer than a month.

There was nothing deep about the game.

When you get down to it, there's nothing deep about any MMO, especially these days. XI did however have a very deep storyline compared to a lot of MMOs.

[XxOstiaxX]

Leveling up on crabs till lvl 30 PLEASE NO!!!!

[Quanta]

Like all MMOs or else they wouldn't last longer than a month.

Yes, but most of the MMOs worth playing at least try to disguise their grindy timesinks with fun game mechanics and interesting content, rather than just releasing them naked into the wild.

SE let FFXIV out in its birthday suit and tried to get everyone to play along until people blurted out the obvious problems with that idea and reality started to sink in. SE has essentially put a shirt on FFXIV with many of the changes that have been implemented in the last year, put they're still working on the pants and you can still see its junk hanging out.

FFXI came out in a tailored suit, and while it looked nice and was a smooth talker, beneath the surface it was utterly complex in the worst ways possible, and mostly boring. It had some neat stories though, assuming you were willing to deal with all the bullshit it wanted to put you through to have a chance to listen to them.

WoW wore shorts and a hawaiian shirt, and while it wasn't the most attractive and could occasionally say some damned stupid shit, you couldn't help but have fun when you were around it. WoW knew how to have a good time, even if it wasn't the best storyteller.