So I'm not seeing how this is them changing things up from 2.0/3.0

[Dyvid]

We have that with maps and FATEs, but those don't count for some reason. Theres actually quite a bit to do in the open world, people just complain "thats not what we want"

It's a fair point most people ignore World content but I would counter that the rewards are secondary to those you need in DF. People are always going to take the path of easiest gains. The rewards should work in tandem with rather than counter too instance content. As for new content, I would be happy with Guildleve having a light party/full party option and Beast tribe having a two or three quest for party play. Couple that with open world alliances and party filller queue; a lot of the complaints would be solved.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

It's a fair point most people ignore World content but I would counter that the rewards are secondary to those you need in DF. People are always going to take the path of easiest gains. The rewards should work in tandem with rather than counter too instance content. As for new content, I would be happy with Guildleve having a light party/full party option and Beast tribe having a two or three quest for party play. Couple that with open world alliances and party filller queue; a lot of the complaints would be solved.

You can do leves in a party. It actually helps while levelling since you can do them at a higher level (if you struggle anyway) and if you have friends doing the same thing, you can knock them all out for everyone.

[Dyvid]

You can do leves in a party. It actually helps while levelling since you can do them at a higher level (if you struggle anyway) and if you have friends doing the same thing, you can knock them all out for everyone.

Is that a better method of leveling than queue for DF? Do you get equal rewards from Guildleve than running dungeons for tomes? When I say Guildleve with groups I mean guildleve specifically designed in scale, challenge, and reward for parties. Something you can't just do by yourself.

I like the DF, always have but I also understand that if you want to build the server community you have to push the people on that server to interact with one another. Developing long lasting MMO requires a bit of psychology and understanding the fundamentals on how humans interact. Yoshi-P wants to build stronger communities but fails to understand that he needs to provide situations for people to meet one another on the same server to do that. If I did the same task with the same people over and over, odds are we would join the same LS and FC.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Is that a better method of leveling than queue for DF? Do you get equal rewards from Guildleve than running dungeons for tomes? When I say Guildleve with groups I mean guildleve specifically designed in scale, challenge, and reward for parties. Something you can't just do by yourself.

I like the DF, always have but I also understand that if you want to build the server community you have to push the people on that server to interact with one another. Developing long lasting MMO requires a bit of psychology and understanding the fundamentals on how humans interact. Yoshi-P wants to build stronger communities but fails to understand that he needs to provide situations for people to meet one another on the same server to do that. If I did the same task with the same people over and over, odds are we would join the same LS and FC.

Most people already have that. Thats why all these FC's and LS's exist. lol. I already have a group I play with, I dont NEED a reason to group. And actually, for leveling, leves are quite good. Thats how I got the majority of my jobs from 50 to 51. can do it in less time than the dungeon runs it takes. I just see most people advise saving leves for crafting/gathering classes, which is probably why it gets ignored.

[Talraen]

It's a fair point most people ignore World content but I would counter that the rewards are secondary to those you need in DF. People are always going to take the path of easiest gains. The rewards should work in tandem with rather than counter too instance content. As for new content, I would be happy with Guildleve having a light party/full party option and Beast tribe having a two or three quest for party play. Couple that with open world alliances and party filller queue; a lot of the complaints would be solved.

And therein lies the problem (re: the part I bolded). If open world content ever becomes a better option than the duty finder, then people will use the duty finder that much less. That will in turn kill the game. The duty finder being well-used is vital to letting new players (of which there are a ton right now, I will note) catch up. If everyone's off doing some cool open world content because it's better than roulettes, then roulettes don't get done and people have exponentially longer queues. And then they quit the game out of frustration. I mean, there's a thread right now about removing duties from the MSQ because of how bad DPS queues are right now.

The long and the short of it is, duty finder must always be a part of the best way to advance. That's the lynchpin of the entire game design. Changing that would be suicide.

[Dyvid]

And therein lies the problem (re: the part I bolded). If open world content ever becomes a better option than the duty finder, then people will use the duty finder that much less. That will in turn kill the game. The duty finder being well-used is vital to letting new players (of which there are a ton right now, I will note) catch up. If everyone's off doing some cool open world content because it's better than roulettes, then roulettes don't get done and people have exponentially longer queues. And then they quit the game out of frustration. I mean, there's a thread right now about removing duties from the MSQ because of how bad DPS queues are right now.

The long and the short of it is, duty finder must always be a part of the best way to advance. That's the lynchpin of the entire game design. Changing that would be suicide.

Sorry but I think you missed the sentence right after the one you highlighted in bold; Rewards should work in tandem. DF would reward you with weapons, gear, etc... while OW rewards would be materia and alternative BiS. You can create a healthy balance which players can enjoy both sides of the coin.

I've said my peace on open world though, whether anyone agree with me or not. My hope is with 4.0 they add a method to merge parties and form alliances to make it easier for FATE and Hunts, or for when FC's or FC Alliances want to run 18-man raids.

[Vhailor]

I've said my peace on open world though, whether anyone agree with me or not. My hope is with 4.0 they add a method to merge parties and form alliances to make it easier for FATE and Hunts, or for when FC's or FC Alliances want to run 18-man raids.

I, for one, am in full agreement. Ease of access is important, and the DF is great for that, but people need to be pushed out of the auto-grouping environment more often.

That said, another huge thing that needs to go is the 8-player party size for most end-game content. The fact that people don't need to find FCs to do any non-Savage content is a problem; the fact that keeping a static going whilst needing to juggle 8 different schedules is another problem. Bring it down to 6 (tank / healer / 4x DD), which would incidentally ease the DD queues in DF instances because DD would make up 2/3 of an 6-person group rather than (typically) 1/2 of an 8-person group.