Coils of Bahamut... and its inconsistent challenge level.

[Maero]

No content after coil has come close to it, difficulty and story as well. That is why it was great

[Dualgunner]

You know why because they dont want any obstacles at that point they want to get in and out to be done with it. People have pony farms up unsnyc always because they want to put as little and as minimal effort in team farming their birds. When people run things unsync thats what its ran for the least resistance the easiest method available is it not? I know for certain people aren't gona be doin any sync bird farms in stormblood.

What's the argument here? Unsynch *is* the path of least resistance in Coil, unless you're saying somehow unsynching makes Coil harder? I don't recall any mechanics adversely affected by outrageous dps like in Ramuh Ex and Leviathan Ex, the latter of which actually *is* easier to fight synched than unsynched intriguingly enough.

So lets be honest about this feature people use it because its easy no other reason for using it other wise

O teach me Payton Senpai, you clearly know the major use for every major function in the game better than the rest of the playerbase combined.

yes the person they mention above has a good idea with the teaching method but thats very very rare. Most people even in nn a new player will be like hey I have to do titan hm , the mentor will say do you want a speed kill and they do it unsync.

Well that's pretty shitty of the novice network then. I'm not saying I disagree, I'm just saying that's a pretty shitty outlook for the nn.

The community has spoken and its clear you see it in pf everyday if its old content and we dont have to do it we want the easiest way to do it possible.

So if people prefer to do things unsynched, that content in specific is dead? They'll *still* want to do it unsynched even if either of the OP's suggestions are implemented.

And that way is unsync and it will continue to always be the first choice if its available.

I'm not sure of your point atm. You waffle about a lot and it is annoying to try and sift through.

I mean yea Ive been in some unsync parties where we killed ifrit to fast , or same thing with ramuh but its not the same thing by any means as it is sync.

Ah yes! Ifrit thank you, that was another one.

And you're right, unsynch does make the fights entirely different. You're struggling with a very different side of the mechanics than before. But not every fight can be like that (and god help me if they were, holding deeps is painful.)

You are so overpowered that you are just taking chunks of health out of them that even if you wipe it will take you all of two mins to get back to the same point you were at where running it sync it would take alot longer to get to that same point.

The sky is blue, water is wet...

I ignore tones of mechanics

Sig material. Too bad Defias' quote is so much more fun.

in these same two fights Im not worried about breaking someone out of charmed ignored, on ifrit Im not worried about that chain attached to me ignored. I really dont even have to worry about the large wide room aoe or even look for the safespot all of those things can be ignored, and what people are asking for is the ability to ignore mechanics in coil to just because its coil doesn't mean that the option still shouldn't be there again unsync should be the least bit of resistance period if you want the challenge do it sync.

And finally we get to your goddamn point.

Coil Mechanics Unsynch lets me ignore:
Everything T1
Everything T2
T3 don't count but yeah ignore it too
Everything T4
T5: Can ignore neurolinks, kill Asclepius dead before second divebombs even come close to happening, Twin dies before Dreadknight and Twisters.
T6: Everything
Everything in T7. You *can* still pull through petrifying everyone. Though granted, easier to just follow mechanics.
T8: Bumrushed with pure deeps before
T9: Not a lot actually, though skipping Nael to 64%HP before two meteors drop helps a bit. Also burning her add down quickly, and then murdering her before Fire In/Fire Out really starts to be a thing.
T10: You can basically just burn the hell out of this.
T11: Can't skip a lot I can think of here, mostly because it's a more technically minded raid, but burning things down quick helps a lot.
T12: Can literally bumrush this
T13: Can literally bumrush this

Around T13 the average DPS's dps was maybe between 500 and 600 iirc (x4 and not counting tank/healer dps cuz I'm lazy) is between 2000 and 2400.

Nowadays average dps is 2000 on the low end. x 4 is about 8000, around 4x t13 synch dps in the day. There is not a single class that can enter coil at Lv60 i250 that has less hp than even a warrior back in the day, thanks to echo buffs as well.

"If you want challenge do it synch" Fair enough, but there is no challenge to a lot of Coil unsynch anyway. Nerfing it more is pointless because there will always be someone who can't do it. And they'll ask for nerfs. And more nerfs. And more. Until Coil is *nothing* but cinematics. Slippery slope, for sure, but there will never come a day people don't ask for nerfs because they can't do what's already faceroll easy, and you seem to always be on the side of the people who can't and refuse to try.

@Istaru

Not for me, stopped reading here.

[Vidu]

Nobody wants easy mood at least I dont but when Im unsyncing content I expect and get the equivalent of doing a guildhiest with larger mechanics that can mostly be ignored and thats what people want with coil for it to be like basically like everything else you run unsync an easy clear.

Thanks to HyoMin highlighting this particular part that I need to comment on because its absolutly beautiful: Me and my friends use to joke about how guildhests have actually better and more complexe mechanics than dungeons. They teach you certain mechanics that require you to pay attention or your out and then those mechanics are never used again, despite being a lot better than just the normal "dodge this AoE"-stuff. You're not even able to bruteforce your way through most of those mechanics or if you do, its at a high cost. Sooo... unsyched Coil is actually pretty close to that: The fights dont take long, but there are mechanics you have to pay attention too and if you fail to do so, you're out.

And again: Your expectations might simply be wrong. I dont expect unsych to remove all mechanics from a fight - if you do, I'm sorry to tell you the aweful truth: It doesnt, shouldnt and never will.

[bswpayton]

Allow me to point out the contradictions in your first paragraph. You play this game for a challenge, and enjoy challenging yourself, yet the minute you deem content "old" or "irrelevant," it needs to be nerfed into oblivion, thereby removing any and all aspects of it being challenging even at a higher level. I hardly doubt that that was what

Im really not contradicting myself tho in sync content for the most part I always put in effort I do same thing every dungeon , whether its copperbell mines are not im pulling the room Im always tryin to better myself and build on my skills. I dont know why people actually think when someones doing something unsync they expect a challenge that comes with it, i dont know SE definition of what they wanted unsync to be.

But the base with I guess everything thing else but coil is basically tank and spank finished, there are very minimal things you have to do to clear an unsync primal or dungeon. So what the op and Im saying is give this same concept to coil, and this isnt the first post ive seen on this in these forums I saw one just the other day where someone was asking the same type thing. Because Im sure their experience with unsync content is burn the boss get the horse, why are we pretending like this isnt what unsync is. Are you calling for a revamp on ravana and bis they arent even unsync yet and can be nerfed into oblivion its no telling how much easier it will be to destroy them in unsync in a few months. You have no problem with them stripping these primals or other instances of their former glory, but yet it seems to be a thing with coil thats I guess held in a different light like we are talking about nerfs here not changing content or creating new stuff.

Im pretty sure to add that extra five percent echo in alex 9s to 12s didnt cost that much and they made adjustments to some of the things the fights did. So pretty much for those whom have trouble with coil remove the type of mechanics that are messing up their experience. No one in here and I dont believe op is askin for any changes to current content. I enjoy dungeons like the vault is one of my favorites, aurum vale is a favorite of mine Id never ask for nerfs.

I go in dun scathe all the time and somehow every other run it seems to be a wipe and nobody asking for nerfs on that I can see. The only crazy post Ive seen about a nerf sense I been reading these forums is potd 50 boss. Nobody even asked for a nerf on soar, like have a bit more faith in your player base but when it comes to old content from what Ive seen nobody cares at that point. And this thread its surprising to see how dear people are holding this one instance that has some really good story in it, but some players may not be able to deal with the mechanics and ud rather tell them to go on youtube and watch it. That doesn't seem very accommodating to me at all.


@Vaer

And to be clear I certainly didnt say it was hard if anything Ive stated that it was laughably easy to run stuff unsync and it should be if you wana run it unsync

[SendohJin]

Im pretty sure to add that extra five percent echo in alex 9s to 12s didnt cost that much and they made adjustments to some of the things the fights did.

they already made those adjustments on Coil, why should any dev spend another minute on doing any more?

[HyoMinPark]

@bswpayton: I am currently away from my computer, but expect a through reply to your post to appear here as soon as I get home.

For now, I will say this: if you had read any of my other posts in this thread, you would recall that I mentioned how sad it was that Ravana Ex is now just a shell of what it used to be, and this is just overgeared-60. Probably when everyone is doing it unsynced at 70, they can just auto-attack and still clear. And that is incredibly sad.

With regards to Soar--people demand that it be skipped (see: Skip Soar or disband), or else the party is a no-go. They don't even want to bother learning the mechanic, which is not hard to learn or comprehend. Not much different than asking for a nerf, in my opinion because they both achieve the same thing: not having to actually put effort towards learning and properly executing mechanics.

My "faith" in this playerbase is basically non-existent because people don't care and just want to watch Netflix while doing any duty, or demand nerfs or skips so that they don't have to learn basic mechanics or worry about doing them. Why should I have faith in a player base that just want rewards handed to them?

People in this thread are discussing Coil because the thread is about Coil. Not Alexander. Not Heavensward primals, not dungeons or anything else. Coil. I personally find it ridiculous and a little sad how much people would rather Zerg content than actually try. I enjoy doing things synced because it's a refreshing change from just skipping everything.

ADDITION: When I run a piece of content for the first time, I hate it when my friends take me in unsynced because I don't feel like I learned anything. For example, I decided to work on the old Bard relic just to have something to do after I got all the birds. My friend took me through Hydra and Chimera unsynced and I still feel like I don't know anything about either. And, as fate would have it, I've been getting them frequently in my Trial and Mentor roulettes.

If anything else, I dislike not knowing how to do things because I feel like it reflects poorly on me--especially when I'm running Mentor roulette and I get new people. I'm supposed to know this content enough to teach it, but I'm always hesitant to queue because what if I roll something that I have only done unsynced? Or roll something that I only ran once (Gordias Normal...I remember nothing about A3 and A4). So it bothers me probably more than most when people just insist on skipping or unsyncing everything. Especially when they are Mentors. How can you teach mechanics if you refuse to learn them?

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

The reason Coil is easy for me is because I put the time and effort in to learn it when it was new. Now that it's old, I can go in synced or unsynced and still follow the mechanics, thus the 2 biggest hurdles are already lept: what to do, and how to do it. And where they aren't skipped due to high DPS, I STILL follow them. I still stop moving for Blighted Bouquet in T6, I still fall back to avoid damage in T8 if I have Allagan field - THAT is why I can clear it with a 3 man group.

I said it before, and I'll say it again: unsyncing doesn’t excuse anyone from learning the mechanics. Not when you've already been dealing with lesser versions of them, or the same with a different coat of paint, and all through Heavensward. If you think old content should be a faceroll simply because it's old and learning what to do and how to do it shouldn't matter, your mindset and approach to the content is wrong.

[Istaru]

@bswpayton: I am currently away from my computer, but expect a through reply to your post to appear here as soon as I get home.

HyoMinPark, save yourself the trouble. That person is always right and will not stop repeating themselves until you suffer an aneurism and die.

I agree with what your saying and I feel the same way.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

As annoying as I found them before, we need the gates back. We NEED those hard challenges that bring people to a full stop as far as progression and gearing goes. As it stands right now, higher and higher gear - sub-raid level gear - is simply becoming grind tokens that require no real skill to get, just put in 20-30 minutes a day and you'll have an upgrade, guaranteed. No real effort necessary. It's old news now, but when I got my first Darklight piece, I felt like a champ. Why? Cause I beat the Demon Wall. The ORIGINAL Demon Wall. It was tough, but I did it. And I learned a lot in doing it. Yeah, there were wipes, there were bad runs, but when I was able to pull it off consistently, and I got myself a Darklight Corset of Aiming, I was the champ, man.

We NEED that back. Gear currently has no value, because there's no value in the efforts made to get it. Primals have been on a down slope since Thordan, Alexander's (normal) loot system is more of a chore than actual incentive, and as soon as the 24 man raid offers better, it gets left in the dust. No one's going to run anything below A9 multiple times just to get a gear piece, even for glamour. 24 man content becomes avoided because people go expecting others to know how to do everything and do it for them, then wonder why no one's doing anything. We NEED the midcore, and it NEEDS to be a challenge.

This isn't me saying "Make EVERYTHING Coil levels of difficulty since it's an old raid!" This IS me saying we need those challenges that drive people to make LEARNING PARTIES again. Not clear parties, not carries, not "Skip this or life as we know it ends", legit learning parties. We need content that will push people to try and try and try, and look up guides, grab friends who know it or are also trying to learn it; hell MAKE friends who want to clear it just as bad as you do. We need a reason to WANT to progress, and not just do it for the sake of doing it; something to learn to conquer so that we can see what lies beyond it. Cause right now, we don't have that. We have "Skip Soar or disband [because you should be geared enough with all the handouts and know your job well enough by now to push the fight, and because I don't want to have to learn this mechanic]."

Soar: It's half-marker Ifrit dashes, single aoes, then a party soak and keep out mechanic.

[Istaru]

As annoying as I found them before, we need the gates back.

Lace, stop pushing your outdated, elitist, obstructionist views on the game and its players.

Why don't you love them enough to understand that they pay the same subscription that you pay and deserve to have evetything you have?

/sarcasm