As a healer, is it my job to DPS? A new perspective.

[Feyona]

Then don't! You can so easily join a casual group, a just for fun group, make your own group. You have that power and you don't need to impede on a group that doesn't suit your playstyle. Hardcore groups enjoy what they do, you not joining frees up a slot for a healer who likes the high-pressure environment. You have no right at all to enforce your playstyle on another group when you can so easily create your own group.

who says I impdede myself on others or enforce my playstyle on groups. Think its more the other way round? You may not see that in game but I do

[Stormbad]

who says I impdede myself on others or enforce my playstyle on groups. Think its more the other way round? You may not see that in game but I do

If you knowingly join a hardcore group and upset that they put pressure on you to dps, then you are enforcing your playstyle on them by staying. You can tell them all of your ideas about what a healer's role is but all you are doing is lowering the fun for the rest of the group. This is why, it is suggested by many people here, that you join a group of like-minded people so nobody will be upset about anything.

I don't understand, do you purposely join groups of hardcore "elitists" to torture yourself when you clearly have no desire to be that way?

[bounddreamer]

who says I impdede myself on others or enforce my playstyle on groups. Think its more the other way round? You may not see that in game but I do

That's kinda character assassination tbh. I haven't seen anything from him to indicate that kind of attitude. Setting standards is miles away from forcing someone to do something.

This whole thing is a lot of:

"You shouldn't force healers to dps."

"Fine, no one is forcing them."

"But they're forcing them in savage. They don't have to dps to savage."

"Okay? They don't have to, but if the group wants them to, they should?"

"Well they wanted me to so I did, but they shouldn't have to."

"They don't have to."

"Stop forcing them."

What do you think would be a productive result of this discussion? Because I'm not seeing a way to get there from here.

[Feyona]

Both of you have options. All healers have options. There are pressures in endgame raiding for all players, for both healers. So this "force" that you're so forcefully arguing against can be addressed in a variety of different ways by yourselves, the individuals, rather than expecting the overall community meta to change (which it won't).

Saying that you or anyone may quit the game isn't the catastrophic life event that it may seem to be. Sometimes that is the right choice. It's a personal decision for a personal situation.

Sure people not being able to enjoy the game doesnt effect you personally and really suits everyone that likes or enforces healer dps . So your fine, why worry about other people. ofc it doent matter. Why should it? All that matters is getting in that optimal play group.People are replaceable . To stormblad above how many times do I have to say I was persuded to go in that hard core static, they wanted to train me. I have never once asked to go in any static in all cases was asked to, in all cases, they knew I wasnt dps heal. The hard core group told me not to dps while learning a fight and the group split up in 2 weeks not due to me. So to say I tortured myself is way off the mark I went in cos they wanted me to and said ill try but felt out of depth with it.

[bounddreamer]

Sure people not being able to enjoy the game doesnt effect you personally and really suits everyone that likes or enforces healer dps . So your fine, why worry about other people. ofc it doent matter. Why should it? All that matters is getting in that optimal play group.People are replaceable .

What part of "they have options" was unclear? I'm not saying "dps or gtfo." I'm saying they have choices. Just like it's a choice to do savage content, to begin with.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I wont join a hardcore group now Ive been in one but didnt enjoy it. I joined cos I was asked to, and as always said I will try. Its not just the communty my feedback is aimed at its in general. And I do not expect everyone to accept all preferences. Im talking about healer dps not everything. That the force or pressure to do it is totally unecessary. Did you read what the other person said about it or have you completely overlooked what she said? She may quit game cos of it and Im feeling like that too.

Like Lamb said, just join a casual group. The group I currently run with is casual focused. I'm not going to demand they push through every mechanic and both healers top the FFlong charts. If I want that kind of group, the onus is on me to seek out a new static because that isn't how they want to play the game. Why can't you do the same and find people who suit your preferences? Go look up DrakGamestein on youtube. His group proudly calls themselves casual raiders. The healers do minimal DPS and the whole group even trolls one another for the sheer fun of it. They aren't going to be on the higher levels of FFlogs, and that's perfectly okay. Plenty of people don't care about numbers, healer DPS or what have you. Go find those groups. What I don't understand if why you feel insistence on changing the community. If someone feels pressured into doing something they otherwise wouldn't, it's on them to leave. In the context of a static, they simply find another one.

[HyperiusUltima]

I'm starting to think that Feyona is derailing the thread to an extent, considering it seems to be a perpetual loop every time someone turns around.

As much as the person's experience is, Feyona seems to always play the devil's advocate and chooses to find some type of wrong, despite the solutions that are proposed from MULTIPLE PEOPLE.

But I have to ask: What is the root of the problem when it came to heavy expectations that your Healer would DPS and how it leaked into casual content? I really would like to know how this evolved to where we are now since I don't have a good grasp of it.

[Lambdafish]

But I have to ask: What is the root of the problem when it came to heavy expectations that your Healer would DPS and how it leaked into casual content? I really would like to know how this evolved to where we are now since I don't have a good grasp of it.

Ironically I think that catering to the lowest common denominator (i.e. Yoshi P wanting players to feel like they didn't need pressure) actually caused it. Making content easier (like the mind numbing nature of dungeons) causes players to do other things to fill in the lack of a need for healing. It is definitely a case that if more pressure was put on the healers (not necessarily though enemies hitting harder, but with more party wide damage and healer mechanics), then the DPS meta would be weakened.

[Sebazy]

Sorry but thats so elitist on a game that people should be allowed to enjoy. Words like not qualified, and shouldnt be there more or less is what your saying so only good ones allowed to play a game? And everyone else gtfo? So wrong lambadafish. And whats more you dont see whats wrong with healers doing their job well not being considered qualified

Sorry but I have to respond to this hilariously misguided comment.

Feyona, you really need to understand that:

A) This tier is the easiest savage tier we've seen yet, only A11S is even coming close to the difficulty many of us saw in A3S, A4S, A6S and A8S progression at or close to min ilvl.

B) You are now progressing with echo which trivialises the DPS requirements for this already lenient tier.

So yes, there is usually a bar of entry to this content, not everyone is capable of playing at the level it frequently asks, far from it. It's just that the bar of entry is at the lowest it's ever been.

Oh and on the subject of 'hardcore' groups. I last did 'hardcore' raiding on the release of Gordias savage. That involved taking a week off work and raiding for 8+ hours each day, 7 days a week to chase world/server firsts. I landed a nerve infection during that stint, spent the tail end of it feeling like I was being stabbed in the eye and on the final day had to give in and get a replacement so I could face plant on a bag of frozen veg for stop the pain for a bit. Oh and the content was hard as hell as well

So yes, perhaps that gives you a little insight as to why I find your 'but it's so easy, I don't need to DPS! I've been hardcore teehee gigglesnort' wafflings mildly annoying. At the risk of showing my age.... Kids these days eh? =(

[AmeliaVerves]

He was not harrassed no, or insulted even, but excluded therefore this does create pressure to dps as healer.

Well then, if you can't handle others being better than you and therefore excluding you from their groups, don't join PF groups.

It's not me, or good players putting pressure on you and others. You are doing that to yourself, because you feel in need of rising up to the same level of skill. People being not as skilled as others is totally fine, noone forces you to improve, it's all up you to let that get to you or not.
Maybe I was harsh, possible, and even though I was not nice I was still polite and gave him the chance. Like... what the hell, he could have had 2 hours of farming Zurvan and literally being 'carried' all the way and all he had to do for that was staying in cleric and putting DoTs!!! How. Is. That. Pressure?!
Everyone was so focused on maximizing, nobody would have noticed if he would have been super bad at dpsing and even if, noone would have cared, because all we wanted was him at least trying and showing some will to put effort.

So please stop talking about 'pressure', while all of that just happens in your mind, because you had some d***bags thinking they were super pro while they were absolutely not.
If you feel like you can't live up to a groups expectations just tell them. "Hey guys, I feel like I can't keep up with you and therefore would like to leave so I can find a group that suits me better and you can find someone fitting in better. Thanks, have a nice day and good luck on your way." Then leave and open up a PF saying what you level of skill is and find others who are at same level. It's not too hard to communicate with others.

That's kinda character assassination tbh. I haven't seen anything from him to indicate that kind of attitude. Setting standards is miles away from forcing someone to do something.

This whole thing is a lot of:

"You shouldn't force healers to dps."

"Fine, no one is forcing them."

"But they're forcing them in savage. They don't have to dps to savage."

"Okay? They don't have to, but if the group wants them to, they should?"

"Well they wanted me to so I did, but they shouldn't have to."

"They don't have to."

"Stop forcing them."

What do you think would be a productive result of this discussion? Because I'm not seeing a way to get there from here.

Exactly what I was thinking. xD
I am just sitting here, reading last few pages and being like: "Eh... Wait... What?!"