On Xelphatol and the Actual Summoner.

[Lambdafish]

Well its a good thing most of you posting on this thread don't seem to represent the SMN community much...

How do you know this? Just because my little nametag that says "Main class: Gladiator"? I have SMN at 60, I have played a fair bit of SMN, I know what the job is like, how it plays, and the issues that I have with it. I can change my job at any time and if SMN gets a lot of love in the places that I want I may join this "SMN community" that apparently excludes me.

Having said that, I do agree with your definition of what makes SMN good, and what "feels like a SMN". I think all that needs to happen is animations need to be flashier and more summon focused, the gameplay can stay the same (if a bahamut mirage cast deathflare, rather than us, it would instantly stop a lot of complaints)

[Silverquick]

Having said that, I do agree with your definition of what makes SMN good, and what "feels like a SMN". I think all that needs to happen is animations need to be flashier and more summon focused, the gameplay can stay the same (if a bahamut mirage cast deathflare, rather than us, it would instantly stop a lot of complaints)

Very well, in fairness here... I will also concede a point...


There is one thing I do find incredibly pointless in the Job as well....

Enkindle has a 5 minute recast timer... for a 250 Potency (Garuda) supreme attack... even with Spur and Rouse this thing is lucky to make a 400 potency attack IF THAT. I can do 4-5 Deathflares in the time it takes that thing to refresh and those are 440 potency.

Supposedly this is the level 50 cap ability... akin to the BLM Flare spell. Yeah we got hosed on that one... there is no reasonable person I know that can justify a 5 minute recast timer for a 250 potency attack... you can't no matter how you slice it.

Enkindle either needs to be a 1 minute recast... or the Pets signature attack potency needs to be doubled for a FIVE MINUTE recast on the Enkindle... Then it will truly be a level 50 signature attack.

And I will never argue with any of you regarding glamors and aesthetics to make Summoners more "Flashy".

But the fact does remain..... this is a very fun and powerful class to play and very popular as is...

[Neela]

True - i love enkindle but the cd is way to long compared to its potency... I would love to see some more egi-related skills or at least adjustments to the current ones, although it seems doubtful that SE will work on the petsystem any further at all .____.

[Silverquick]

True - i love enkindle but the cd is way to long compared to its potency... I would love to see some more egi-related skills or at least adjustments to the current ones, although it seems doubtful that SE will work on the petsystem any further at all .____.

The thing is... had they done Enkindle correctly.... it would have been akin to your Teraflare/Deathflare at level 60... you would have found the class playing no differently at level 50 than level 60... well ok maybe a little... BUT...

The reality is... Enkindle would have been your 50th level version the way Deathflare is the capstone of your attacks at level 60.

One Enkindle per minute would have equated out to similar damage mechanics as Deathflare/Teraflare does every minute currently for the Summoner at level 60 due to the way Aetherflow stacks work.

Probably would have saved themselves some Summoner whining back when the level cap was only 50.

EDIT: And then you'd have had your version of the Garuda, Ifrit, Titan version of the Bahamet Teraflare we have now.

[Lambdafish]

snip

I can agree with that. I even drafted an idea of enkindle being made part of dreadwyrm trance (renamed to trance form). The idea is that enkindle is made into an ability that gives you three aetherflow stacks and powers up your egi. It can only be used during trance form, and gives you the status "overdrive".

If overdrive is active, deathflare is replaced with the ultimate attack of the summoned egi.

[Silverquick]

I can agree with that. I even drafted an idea of enkindle being made part of dreadwyrm trance (renamed to trance form). The idea is that enkindle is made into an ability that gives you three aetherflow stacks and powers up your egi. It can only be used during trance form, and gives you the status "overdrive".

If overdrive is active, deathflare is replaced with the ultimate attack of the summoned egi.

They wouldn't even have to go that far with it... there's no reason to totally rebuild the class mechanics.

This is no change to any actual game system and not a class rework... its a simple recast timer adjustment on Enkindle (or possibly Potency adjustment and keep the timer)... that basically brings the Level 50 Capstone ability in line with the level 60 Capstone ability of Deathflare... aka Teraflare.

ie...
Aerial Blast (Garuda)
Inferno (Ifrit)
Earthen Fury (Titan)

Yeah sure you can add some glamor and flash to it... but at the end of the day its a simple gameplay mechanic adjustment that keeps the job in line with the intents or the direction they went with it in Heavensward.

Nothing fancy here...

[Lambdafish]

Nothing fancy here...

Oh I know, I just wanted to throw out my view on enkindle and where i'd like it to be. IMO it should be part of the SMNs finisher, and compliment deathflare rather than "compete" with it as the flashy move. My idea makes enkindle and deathflare one in the same, and lumps all of the big fancy summoning moves into one ability, making for a more streamlined gameplay that involves both egi management and have 4 big summoner finisher moves within the same gameplay.

Oh and add into that flashier animations, and have the egi transform into a primal mirage for a moment, which uses the attack, and then disappears, rather than SMN using it themselves.

[magnanimousCynic]

Enkindle has a 5 minute recast timer...

You know the Recast for Enkindle was changed from 5 to 3 minutes with the launch of Heavensward, right? I haven't touched SMN since getting it to 60 and I remember that change.

[AlphaFox]

Not really gonna deny that SMN isn't a fun class, it is and I mained it for practically all of ARR. Once HW hit I admit I kinda went the healing path to main then ended as tank. However going to the main OP at hand. I feel the same way, summoners are known for bringing the wrath of the primal upon foes but instead we leave that power to a little ball of mass. I guess I expected something aesthetic wise along the lines of Yuna in Dissidia, where they are summoned only briefly to strike. That our skills would revolve around summoning Hell Fire and Diamond dust (obviously at lower potency) vs being a Warlock from WoW.

Just that the main focus point isn't on the Summon itself, but just how I feel on this.

[DaulBan]

Yoship repeatedly mentions that they want to design classes their way and while some of the weirdness around SMN right now (particularly the 30-50 stuff) is caused by the dual class with SCH/SMN I doubt there will be much of a rework coming for SMN's overall play style. Introducing things like the big f-off summons is sorta cool, but I don't know if it really fits with what they gave SMN in 3.X (ie: better CC and personal damage with deathflare, dwt, rIII, and painflare). I can easily see SMN becoming more of a CC beast in the future and the summons continuing to be less of an important part of gameplay over time. Whether you think that's a good thing or not is your business, but I personally hope they stick with the personal skills that SMN is getting.