[Stormblood Budget] Where all the money's gone ?

[Voltyblast]

Snip

Yes, 1.0 would've been better if it had better gameplay: not only it was bad from a fun perspective (slow combat, clunky menus, etc), but it was also bad from a technical and design standpoint (graphic were so high yet unstable nearly no pc could play it, and areas were copy&paste mess with basically no thought process). 2.0 was a success not only because it was a more recognizable game (it's basically your usual Wow-clone with tab targeting: everyone knows that) but also because it WORKED, it actually worked for most computers and believe it or not, there are people who have low-end pcs because of budget problems. I'm one for example!

So while I have no basis to confirm my point, this is called "an educated guess": if 1.0 played similarly to 2.0 it would've at least succeeded to stay afloat.
If anything, if my guess is wrong and 1.0 would always be bad regardless, then there was something else that was fundamentally broken to begin with, beyond graphics and technical issues.

On top of that, 1.0 was somewhat fan-servicy...why? Well it tried to recapitulate the shadow of its previous game, ffxi. Again this is all "educated guesses" but think about it: the gameplay was slow, clunky, very menu based, the travelling was mostly on foot despite the anima thing and the world was more seamless...while I haven't played it at all from those videos I saw, the game really looked like FFXI-2 rather than a new installment. The problem was it didn't cater enough for those old school fans either and only the true hardcore fans remained to the end...I mean, I saw people defending that game for how "truly final fantasy-ish" it was. What does that even mean, besides trying to be similar to their old flame FFXI? And look no further than these forums: how many people CONSTANTLY bring up ideas that are taken from FFXI?

Once again this all an educated guess, but FFXIV in both the old and recent incarnation, were always somewhat fan-servicy to some degree. It just failed on a very fundamental level (both gameplay and technical) to actually be any good on its own.

However, when I meant fan-service in my post, I meant in FFXIV 2.0: lots of stuff in here are obviously made to attract old-school FF fans...I mean we got that ff6 boss fight, we got odin, somes bosses that come from older ff games (I didn't know calcabrina was from one!) we got jobs that while some are completely off (MCH, AST) we have MANY that are from the FF world (ninja, warrior/berserker, Red mage, Samurai, etc). Not only that but we got "other" kind of fanservice: we got cat girls, cute lizard girls that shouldn't exist and most of the races are quite literally rip offs from ffxi. In addition, we got many references from previous games: those galrean dudes are obviously the judges from ff12, the bipedal mount (i forgot its name) it's from ff6, a lot of costume rewards are from older FF games (Cloud, cecil, tidus, yuna, etc) and the list goes on.

And before you say anything, I'm totally fine with fan service: I honestly don't care about any FF related stuff but I know people like it - I liked persona 4 dancing all night for crying out loud. But, if the fanservice gets priority over gameplay, then problems will start to arise because only those few will really truly enjoy it, but being niche doesn't bring money anymore. Look at Wildstar to see what I mean.

So to answer also at Berethos about drastic changes, what I mean is to take what made ARR good and improve on it: things like tome grinding should be tweaked in order to improve itself but instead it's a carbon-copy of ARR without any changes. Dungeon works the same way but how about additional objectives like timed runs, an achievement for specific actions and additional reward for that? Dungeons don't have to be hard to be fun: they just need a reason to be re-run. Need a proof? Just look at EX primals: they have mounts that promote re-runs constantly. You think they would be alive to this day if they hadn't? I just want the same kind of treatment for the rest of the game, that's all I meant!

PS: while the taste is subjective, just because final fantasy is popular it doesn't necessarily mean it's good. CoD is popular and it's pretty much filth. However, I have played games that deliver better in both storytelling and gameplay that, Final fantasy now seems mediocre to my eyes: I loved the Shin Megami Tensei since Digital Devil Saga (not just persona), but also other games like the Atelier series (they looked like fables, which is nice) and the Ar Tonelico trilogy (very interesting lore and characters), as well as older gems like Suikoden and Shadow Hearts (No koudelka unfortunately, but SH2 is my favorite of all time).

What I'm trying to say is, FF and SE in general don't really inspire me to buy their games anymore (FFXIV is pretty much my first and last game from them ever and I don't even think I might try the expansion either) because of their quality drop: I rather spend 90 euros in CE for a series I know that is good because of their previous titles like Atlus (not just persona, but Etrian Odyssey is amazing and Shin Megami Tensei games are top notch games despite their difficulty) or even Gust (Atelier games are often hit and miss but Ar Tonelico is one of my favorite trilogy around but I can't wait for Blue Reflection and Nights of Azure 2) than any latest SE games, considering what they've done (not just 1.0, but also many bad spin-offs like Theatrhymn, Dissidia, World of Final Fantasy and final fantasy explorers).

Call me narrowminded or stubborn or whatever, but I have only so much money that I can spend and I don't want to make a crapshoot anymore: I'll just stick with what I know.

[Talraen]

On top of that, 1.0 was somewhat fan-servicy...why? Well it tried to recapitulate the shadow of its previous game, ffxi. Again this is all "educated guesses" but think about it: the gameplay was slow, clunky, very menu based, the travelling was mostly on foot despite the anima thing and the world was more seamless...while I haven't played it at all from those videos I saw, the game really looked like FFXI-2 rather than a new installment. The problem was it didn't cater enough for those old school fans either and only the true hardcore fans remained to the end...I mean, I saw people defending that game for how "truly final fantasy-ish" it was. What does that even mean, besides trying to be similar to their old flame FFXI? And look no further than these forums: how many people CONSTANTLY bring up ideas that are taken from FFXI?

You admit you're making educated guesses and speaking from assumptions and guts, and there's not really much I can say to that. But I do feel the need to point out that you are very, very wrong about your perceptions of FFXI vs. original FFXIV. The only real elements FFXIV took directly from FFXI were the races (minus Galka tails) and the ability to play every class on a single character. But a big part of what made FFXIV unique was that you could change classes at any time just by changing weapons (in FFXI you could only do so in town), and that the crafting and gathering professions were classes with their own gear and minigames.

FFXI is very much about picking a job and picking the right subjob for that job, whereas FFXIV was about absolute control of character customization. When you leveled up a class, you gained its abilities for use with any class, and they weren't even assigned automatically on that class. Like, if you unlocked conjurer you'd get the six elemental spells, but you could only put three (I think) abilities on your hotbar. You could pick three of those spells, or three abilities from some other class entirely. Conjurer and thaumaturge did have unique abilities (each could toggle AOE mode for spells, in different shapes), but basically the game didn't care what class you were. Any class could use any gear, though it would be less optimal if it was not "recommended." Instead of leveling by forming a party and killing the same monsters over and over, you were expected to level with leves. You had separate class and overall "physical" levels which determined your stats.

I could go on, but the point is, none of this is anything like FFXI. The game shared none of the same jobs/classes, didn't really have a similar visual style, had an icon-based interface with no support for macros (which were the primary interface for FFXI), allowed you to teleport around without being a high-level white mage. There were no quests, no auction house (despite the general expectation that all gear would be crafted by players), and no recycled FFXI monster models. Indeed the game was filled with totally new monster ideas like coblyns, spriggans, phurbles, new beastman tribes, and so on. It was specifically designed to be completely unlike FFXI.

So, feel free to hate on Final Fantasy if you want, but please at least slightly educate yourself on 1.0 before making grand conclusions based on it.

[Voltyblast]

So, feel free to hate on Final Fantasy if you want, but please at least slightly educate yourself on 1.0 before making grand conclusions based on it.

Sure, alright, but it doesn't change that 1.0 failed for "reasons": those are just my guesses as of why it failed, trying to cater from the success of FFXI (which is kind of the same for FF7, if you think about it) but I'm not surprised if none of them are right. But one thing is right for certain: 1.0 failed, hard, almost bankrupt-like, and 2.0 was a success, bringing them back to its proper place. Why? I just tried to make a guess and connect the two games. Am I wrong about the guesses? Then it could mean that 1.0 was going to fail from the very beginning because nothing of it worked at all, as if they had no clue on what to make: even my friends told me why it failed and that's how I "know" some of the game's details. I said that if 1.0 had the 2.0 gameplay it could be a better game, but for how long? Would it be as success as now? I just don't know at this point, and frankly, I don't care either: feel free to make assumptions or guesses at this point.

With that said, this topic is closed for me: moving back to budget issues.

[AnaviAnael]

Sure, alright, but it doesn't change that 1.0 failed for "reasons": those are just my guesses as of why it failed, trying to cater from the success of FFXI (which is kind of the same for FF7, if you think about it) but I'm not surprised if none of them are right. But one thing is right for certain: 1.0 failed, hard.

Speakers Network is doing an excellent series called The Fall and Rise of FFXIV. It details some of the reasons why 1.0 failed. It's definitely worth a watch.
Ep 1: https://youtu.be/CJ9CmxaQ3q8
Ep 2: https://youtu.be/hteHjgVwK6k
Ep 3: https://youtu.be/-5SQdyGAyC8
Ep 4: https://youtu.be/0nVJlaKf5io
Ep 5: https://youtu.be/OU01kQjzIjk

[akaneakki]

Speakers Network is doing an excellent series called The Fall and Rise of FFXIV. It details some of the reasons why 1.0 failed. It's definitely worth a watch.
]

I know its not relevant to your post and I do agree with some of the things why the first game failed, however... Final fantasy franchise has stepped down a lot more than the previous games, I talk about pre square enix. There is tons of reaons why and sometime when I can, I will google them all for you or look through videos. But to make it short here right now, the games/franchies has been good in graphics, okay on voice acting as well. I talk about after square enix started publishing the games. However, the storym quality of ''content'' has been downgraded like crazy. I'm saying this behalf of myself not others. I'm a true final fantasy fantic and I'm proud of it. However, when a final fantasy game tells me where to go, what to do, there is abosulutely no content outside the story, nearly anything. FF12 was great it at, from FF13 not so much sadly.

I do like FF14 don't get me wrong.

[Berethos]

So to answer also at Berethos about drastic changes, what I mean is to take what made ARR good and improve on it: things like tome grinding should be tweaked in order to improve itself but instead it's a carbon-copy of ARR without any changes.

That would really be iteration rather than drastic changes, and I'd like to see more of it as well.

Other MMOs, notably WoW, often bring in features wholesale for just that expansion, make it super integral, and then drop all but maybe 10% of that element for the next expansion. That's more an example of drastic changes, which is why I'm critical of them.