PLD synergy issues

[Dzian]

This problem with the tanks is balance between them all and trying to make them all the "samey" for just being a tank. When I play MNK it plays TOTALLY different then say my SMN. And for good reason. Because that's a play style that works for each class. I have some grips with MNK and the constant spamming chakra (so annoying), but the dps mnk offers is great.

I don't understand why they really try to make all the tanks play the same just for the masses to "use them more" or "we would really like to see more PLD". That's a crap excuse. Just make the class viable in it's own right. Don't adjust it to make it more like WAR's dps level. Just offer something that makes the class unique. Shields need to offer more for the class honestly, it's our bread and butter.
I think it's time that PLD get\s the spell reflect!
This would make the class unique and gives the PLD more of it's knight/mage ethos.
Food for thought. Thoughts?

I think it's partly down to the static design of 2 2 4 party's. And the content itself.

Paladin always used to be a defensive tank but in the games content all that ever matters is dps..

And this forces tanks to be samey. Because if you have paladin that have uber mitigation but no dps. A duty finder party with 2 of them is going to struggle with any dps checks or something for example
Same could be said for warriors. If they had no mitigation but uber dps. A party with 2 of them would also struggle because those unavoidable tank busters would rip them to shreds while barely scratching a paladin.

If the party compositions were a lot more flexible than fixed 2 2 4 you could separate the tanks a lot more.. a paladin might be able to tank on his own what it would take 2 warriors to handle.

Or a warrior might require the second healer in a group where a paladin might only need one... so even if that tank buster would rip a warrior to shreds, a party with a warrior tank would probably have extra heals..

The job balance kills the job identity quite a lot in this respect. Can see it with healers as well.

Whm is aimed at pure heals but nothing require that level of healing so ast and sch take all the slots because they bring more dps and enough heals.

But when everything is built around a predefined party setup 2 tanks 2 heals and 4 dps. You really can't individualise the jobs too much and that's why they all feel samey..

They pretty much are all the same. If I play Scholar the amount of healing I have to do on a tank isn't really any different if that tank is a war or a pld or a dark. That tank busters gonna smack all 3 for the exact same amount of damage. And generally speaking what class my tank is doesn't even change how much time I spend in cleric.

The way my Scholar plays is exactly the same regardless of what job the tank is. So yeah it's very samey

[Zojha]

You really can't individualise the jobs too much and that's why they all feel samey..

Oh, you can individualize them - You just cannot individualize them in regards to their mitigation/healing. Healers and tanks both rely on the gimmick of un-avoidable damage and that damage has to be dealt with because it's un-avoidable. And in order to be viable as a tank or healer, any tank/healer needs to be able to deal with any of the damage thrown at them, regardless of composition.

So far so good, but the issue is that having extra mitigation/healing is pointless. At best, it drags out the fight to give DPS more leeway to suck, at worst, there's an enrage that prevents it from doing even that. So you default to the jobs with the most DPS because more damage is always good.

A flexible group composition would ultimately only lead to Zurvan, i.e. drop a tank or healer to get another DPS in. It's something that already happens. And it means that tanks/healers end up getting the short end of the stick. Is that desired?

[ADVSS]

Oh, you can individualize them - You just cannot individualize them in regards to their mitigation/healing. Healers and tanks both rely on the gimmick of un-avoidable damage and that damage has to be dealt with because it's un-avoidable. And in order to be viable as a tank or healer, any tank/healer needs to be able to deal with any of the damage thrown at them, regardless of composition.

spot on to what i think this cross role change will do, esp after hearing them making rampart/shadowskin combined and set into that list as opposed to them being job/class only skills that do basically offer the "medium strength mitigation cd button" effect that all tanks have to have

if they can get the generic necessities out of the way for both tanks and healers, they may actually surprose us in 5.0 with a new healer and tank that yes has the bases covered, but will be pretty unique in other ways, and just as desired as the 3 previous in each said role.