The Final Reason on why we have more DPS than Tanks or Healers

[Shurrikhan]

Give parsers by default, including a vs. expected-given-total-gear-weight ratio, and voila, DPS scrutiny. Scrutiny for everyone.

Alternatively, you could make tanks about more than just meat-tanking (here referring to actively seeking to be pummeled by enemy unavoidables, even if in place of other, squishier allies, rather than manipulating enemies to reduce their damage outputs), and encourage cross-role concerns (e.g. DPS must participate in matters of survival for more than just giant-stack-here-arrows mechanics), requiring a much larger portion of gameplay to be a team effort...

[Shurrikhan]

DPS are forced into the genre with bloated HP pools in enemies and artificial "deal x damage or wipe" mechanics. Just see all those discussions that sparked during Gordias and DPS checks - one of the most common reasons for DPS checks is that "or else people would go with only tanks and healers".

In fact, I'd say that the genre would be more interesting without DPS. Tanks relies on healers, healers relies on tanks, there's an obvious synergy there. DPS? You have no way nor/or need to help tanks or healers, you just do your own thing like in a single player game.

As a Dragoon or BLM, maybe. Otherwise, no more so than a tank, depending on the fight...

It's not as if the options are that much more involved for tanks or healers. As a Monk I routinely grab and gather adds if the OT dies, and when still able as a Summoner I'd then tri-bind them to free up the Monk and avoid damage entirely while rezzing said OT, such that the Monk can debuff the boss's magic damage before the would-be wipe cast because dps is running slow with the OT dead and Mantra us all before the DoT would kill us, etc... Tanks get Provoke to call attention from one target if they continue attacking it, and the rarely effective Cover and costly Clemency for all of one of those tank jobs.

Wouldn't it make more sense to just try to create more overlap and cross responsibility, rather than pick a category as being the best, leave it barebone, and scrap the rest despite their frequently near-equal merits? >.>

[Gemina]

Every DPS main I've ever known has told me they love causing damage and seeing big numbers. Not one has told me they play DPS roles because it has less responsibility than healers and tanks.

All roles are vital: The DPS MUST kill things before resources run out, and/or DPS checks expire. The tank MUST keep hate in order for the DPS to optimize their rotations, and ease the pressure of their healers. Healers MUST keep the tank and DPS on their feet as a dead tank or DPS cannot perform their roles. When ANY of these things don't happen, the group fails.

The constraint DPS have does not exist for tanks and healers. DPS players have limited utility to heal and generate hate should their healer or tank fall, and the small amount of utility they do have is also vastly limited and cannot be sustained over a long period of time. Healers and tanks however, have a tremendous amount of ability to contribute to the damage pool. As a result, they can be seen as having more responsibility, but their damage rotations are not as sophisticated, and are abandoned on the fly to perform their primary duties. This is a luxury DPS players do not have.

In short, we have to stop giving DPS players the short end of the stick. They carry a different responsibility, and not necessarily less. I'm quite happy to have the amount we do, and a big thank you to all those that care about their groups.

[Atlaworks]

I must say I'm the opposite. I find tanks and healers more enjoyable because they're much more reactionary. Something goes wrong, as tank/healer you have to see it and adapt. DPS I find is usually just playing the dance routine of buttons, which I don't enjoy. I think most people prefer to be able to play to a routine though rather than having to be ready to react to when it hits the fan. They just keep trucking along.

And that's cool, man! I daresay, every class has some level of reaction involved- I don't just use Dismantle or Rend Mind off cooldown, I wait for tank busters or phase transitions to chuck a wrench at the boss's head so that it's helpful. I don't promote for MP regain as a routine- I look over at my party's bars and see the healer(s) have low MP and pop it, essentially doing the same "check bars and react" that they're doing. I check enmity when I'm dropping hot wildfires on something so that I don't pull off the tank- checking enmity just like a tank is doing. And I don't just use Blank or Suppressive Fire off-cooldown(unless it's on a boss, then blanking/suppressive is okay, unless it's stunnable, then just blank), I wait to use them to interrupt, or shove a caster back into a group with the rest of the mobs a tank is dealing with. A DPS can and should adapt just as much as anyone else in the party- it's just generally noticed less by everyone else when the DPS either excels or falters.

But you, large blue fellow, you do what you enjoy. Same as I will!

[Ririta]

Wouldn't it make more sense to just try to create more overlap and cross responsibility, rather than pick a category as being the best, leave it barebone, and scrap the rest despite their frequently near-equal merits? >.>

Yes, I agree. I didn't mean to offend. Sadly MMORPGs are removing the DPS' responsability in groups more and more. Crowd management, aggro management, buffs and debuffs, spell interrupption all used to fall on the backs of DPS. Simple things that helped their healers and tanks, but nowadays are forgotten in favor of pure damage.

[shao32]

snip

DPS are artificial as Tanks and healers, they are pretty useless without those 2 roles at they sides bcs they cant do they purpose without then.
Its a social problem not the Trinity desing, like others say you can be easily Kick or even harrased by doing you job bad, but as a dps you hardly go to be noticed, damage os not all that matters, the Trinity is a system Focus on make complex gameplays with "easy" party responsabilitys, the other side of the Coín is a Monster Hunter Gameplay where you need to be tanky, dealt enough damage and heal yourself. the Gameplay is pretty simple, in fact Monster Hunter aim more to tanky mentality.
Ppl dont choose playing dps bcs think damage is the best or a nonsense like that, ppl choose they Jobs for how looks at the begining (if they are New in the genre),Gameplay after try a few or all of It, and for they own experience in the role, many New tanks and healers leave It by pretty bad runs bcs jerks points they fails in a rude form bcs compared to being a dps tanks need to know everything and do everything perfect even if you are complety New in satasha.

[ADVSS]

In terms of brute force yes, but lighter weapons, daggers especially are easier to hit the vital parts of a body, which can deal the most prolonging agony or even the most sudden of deaths.

touche. If this level of reality were in the game, tanks could topple over enemies with a strong swipe, making the job more impactful and fun, even if the vital points damages arent so high. Then again, stuff like that could liven the role a bit since the only big d number tanks get to see is how much that benediction healed them for... not gonna lie, as a dps you can tell when the other dps is slacking very early on. But i love seeing those big numbers, or how fast the mobs are melting. Not that any role is perfect but dps certainly is the least stressful to me, often risking that long queue after havint a bad time tanking a run or tired of tanking for a while. All 3 roles have their nagging stresses. Many dps can even add that getting a single mob pull tank with a blm/smn or smnsmn comp is pretty stressful. Then tanks and healers have to worry about getting ice wizards and autoattacking machinists who seem to have a never ending supply of TP. Then maybe youre the type of healer that stresses over the speedrunning tank when you look over and see a mnk/drg comp(personally try to chainpull more than grab the whole floor with this comp) TBH its DF in general imo. These days i wont even tank unless a friend is going with me, dps or healer, because i know ill have at least 1 good dps or healer

besides all of that, tanks in this game dont feel very tank like, they have very little to no survivability and their real defense comes from momentary cooldowns. It would be like forcing healers to be in cleric stance except they got 3 cooldowns to boost their healing to normal non cleric stance numbers momentarily. The design is just stacked against tanks in favor of making healers more necessary. And those dps wipe mechanics, again artificially added to make dps feel special and needed as well. It is a teamwork effort though, but i feel like the salt would lower down if teamwork was less forced on the roles, for more substantial goals. Like, say the original steps of faith. That wont happen though its too hard apparently to put objectives in fights besides spamming best burst rotation so itll remain how it is and healer and tank queues will still be minimal to small. For you tanks out there that havent tried this yet, i urge you to do the dps novice network trials. You want to see a tank that lets the adds wreck the healer, thats what they give you lol

[thegreatonemal]

Incorrect.

Ignoring gearing (including accuracy issues) and mechanics, it all boils down to this:
DPS

• Deal Damage

Healers

• Deal Damage
• Heal

Tanks

• Deal Damage
• Tank

And even then, a lot of groups care more about how well you deal damage over how well you can tank or heal.

a single dps in an 8 man party does more dps than all of them combined there are 4 of us killing the things falls on us. yes tanks deal damage they have to its how aggro works and healers do it because they'd just be standing there over wise but total they make up about 5% of a bosses hp in terms of damage.

[Kaethra]

This isn't correct.

I just did a few 8 and 24 mans today and each time we had to wait for DPS to fill the queue. Specifically.. raids. 3 Tanks, 6 Healers, and 15 DPS. You need FIVE DPS for every tank. Compared to 4 mans which require only Two DPS for every tank.

Tank shortage? Not at the endgame. Everyone that wants to tank, is either tanking. Or rerolled because its too congested. Think about that for a moment. What senses does it make to roll and level a tank if you likely will have to roll a DPS to do content you mean to do?

I get that not everyone raids. But honestly. I don't believe everyone spends their time PUGing on Sastasha. Eventually you move up to something. And like most MMOs, statics/guilds like to use a specific tank. They don't often (but not always) swap tanks around. That's true from raiding, to trials, to even 4 man roulette. Just take a look at your own servers requests. It usually DPS of some sort. Followed by Healers, and lastly by tanks.

You can level fast as a tank. In the leveling queues and roulette, you get an instant queue. You can run a dungeon as soon as you finish the one you're on. So everyone who figured they'd get fast levels got to max level (and ilvl) then realized.. there's not a place for them. So now they're back in the queues as DPS.

[ADVSS]

3 tanks to 15 dps thats a close ratio to the roughly 20ish percentile of healer/tank to dps. But your problem wasnt shortages, it was human conditioning, not knowing how the other alliances multikicked afk dps, dps going f this i got work in half an hour, or anything relative to what happened in your run. could be bad tanks and awful healers, could be anything. DPS leaving a 24 man is usually highly the fact they got their drop finally and said f it.

This isn't correct.

I just did a few 8 and 24 mans today and each time we had to wait for DPS to fill the queue. Specifically.. raids. 3 Tanks, 6 Healers, and 15 DPS. You need FIVE DPS for every tank. Compared to 4 mans which require only Two DPS for every tank.

Tank shortage? Not at the endgame. Everyone that wants to tank, is either tanking. Or rerolled because its too congested. Think about that for a moment. What senses does it make to roll and level a tank if you likely will have to roll a DPS to do content you mean to do?

I get that not everyone raids. But honestly. I don't believe everyone spends their time PUGing on Sastasha. Eventually you move up to something. And like most MMOs, statics/guilds like to use a specific tank. They don't often (but not always) swap tanks around. That's true from raiding, to trials, to even 4 man roulette. Just take a look at your own servers requests. It usually DPS of some sort. Followed by Healers, and lastly by tanks.

You can level fast as a tank. In the leveling queues and roulette, you get an instant queue. You can run a dungeon as soon as you finish the one you're on. So everyone who figured they'd get fast levels got to max level (and ilvl) then realized.. there's not a place for them. So now they're back in the queues as DPS.

So think really log and hard about dedicated tanks and healers who get no new job to slog the first week of stormblood in. I want to play red mage, but im going to do story as smn or blm. Ive seen this happen in hw, and was one of those level the new shiny first ty[es/ Thhe best approach is to let others server first that 7p while youre already got a full set of tome gear in the time it took them to start story. because "no new tanks and no new healers make career tanks and healers something something."