Eat It or Dodge? What to Do About AoE?

[Aquaslash]

but it gets a little more complicated when I'm paired with NIN or DRG, where they have higher sustainability and output against single targets versus their AoE rotations.

Finally, someone who understands ;_;

[Jpec07]

Finally, someone who understands ;_;

After numerous complaints from friends in my FC who play these jobs, I started to listen. Looking at their theoretical outputs, NIN and DRG are just as ill-suited to burning down mobs with AoE as PLD is. I've taken to trying to adjust my pull size to the AoE output of the group. If I've got a NIN or DRG, I'll slow down and do smaller pulls to let them single-target the mobs down. Where it gets complicated is when my healing friend requests larger pulls because she's bored with the DPS rotation, and wishes to have more reason to heal.

Ultimately, my goal in tanking dungeons is not to run the most efficient dungeon possible, but to ensure everyone enjoys themselves. For some people that means pretending to be a blue hedgehog, and for others, that means executing the perfect rotation on a high-HP trash mob to burn it down extremely quickly.

[Rongway]

If I've got a NIN or DRG, I'll slow down and do smaller pulls to let them single-target the mobs down.

The problem I see often with DDs single targeting is that they kill things. This is very bad, especially when everyone else is using AoEs, because a single target DD who is killing weak mobs is effectively doing zero (0) dps.

If a DD needs to switch to single target in order to maintain TP, then that person needs to attack mobs that have the most health. Otherwise, the damage they're doing is merely a substitute for a portion of AoE damage, rather than an addition to it, resulting in a total party DPS that is not much higher than if he was standing there doing nothing.

[Jpec07]

The problem I see often with DDs single targeting is that they kill things. This is very bad, especially when everyone else is using AoEs, because a single target DD who is killing weak mobs is effectively doing zero (0) dps.

If a DD needs to switch to single target in order to maintain TP, then that person needs to attack mobs that have the most health. Otherwise, the damage they're doing is merely a substitute for a portion of AoE damage, rather than an addition to it, resulting in a total party DPS that is not much higher than if he was standing there doing nothing.

Can you explain this one a little more? I thought killing things was kind of the goal of a dungeon crawl.

[Tint]

Can you explain this one a little more? I thought killing things was kind of the goal of a dungeon crawl.

if DD 1 needs let's say 10 aoe attacks to kill a whole group, he still needs 10 aoe attacks in the end, even when DD 2 kills some of the enemys with single target attacks.

that means the last enemy dies at the same speed as when DD 2 wasn't even there, because he has never attacked it.

all the dps DD 2 did was worthless in the end, because the 10 aoes of DD 1 would have killed the things anyway.

but if DD 2 would spread his single target attacks around, especially on the enemy with the current highest life, DD 1 would not need 10 aoes anymore, but only 7 and the whole group dies faster.

of course this theory doesn't keep in mind the benefit for tanks and healers, because dead enemys do 0 damage to the tank.

[Zojha]

Looking at their theoretical outputs, NIN and DRG are just as ill-suited to burning down mobs with AoE as PLD is.

Uh...wut? I play NIN.

I can go for 10 GCDs, which means 20 seconds at 110 potency per target, not counting natural TP regeneration or Invigorate (which would allow me an additional 3 + 4 GCDs). That's 550 potency per GCD in a mere 5 mob pull for 26 seconds and enough time for 2 Katons at 250 potency per target each. Not counting Kassatsu.

Even in a perfect world where you just need to 1-2-3 your Aeolian Edge combo and the DoTs magically re-apply themselves and Dancing Edge is provided by someone else, your single-target rotation barely reaches 322 average potency per GCD. Even if you assume each of those skills only cost 50 TP, that's 6,45 potency per TP. In reality it's lower. At 6 enemies, I get 660 potency per GCD, that's 6,6 potency per TP. At that point, AoE is even more TP efficient than single-target and you're better off waiting for TP than single target. And you can use your OGCD abilities between AoE abilities as well.

It's not sustainable in raids, yes, because you don't get to go out of combat between AoE phases, but uhm... that statement just made me go:"Dafuq?" In most of my dungeon runs, an AoE pull is dead before I reach 200 TP.

I mean, it's one thing if your FC mates simply don't want it. But, uhm... you confuse me.

[DGladius]

After numerous complaints from friends in my FC who play these jobs, I started to listen. Looking at their theoretical outputs, NIN and DRG are just as ill-suited to burning down mobs with AoE as PLD is. I've taken to trying to adjust my pull size to the AoE output of the group. If I've got a NIN or DRG, I'll slow down and do smaller pulls to let them single-target the mobs down. Where it gets complicated is when my healing friend requests larger pulls because she's bored with the DPS rotation, and wishes to have more reason to heal.

Ninja has pretty good aoe output for big trash pulls in dungeons. A NIN should be using AOE for group pulls (4-5 or more mobs) as should every single DPS jobs. Only slow down if the dps players in a particular run are playing bad and mobs are taking long to die.