Why, Alisaie?

[Mysterysword]

I think you should give this a read http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest.../#sidestory_07 her story moved away from her grandfather a long time ago.

I gave that ridiculously trite story way more reads than it deserved - it reads like bad fanfiction, to me. One thing to note is that in the very first scene with Emery, Alisaie's still quoting Louisoix's "To ignore the plight of those one might conceivably save is not wisdom—it is indolence." line. Hell, she's still quoting it in 3.55-3.56 (can't exactly remember if she did in 3.4 but I have a feeling she did). Sure, maybe she does have other motivations for doing whatever she's doing. If so, can we get a clearer explanation on that? Why does it seem like any time she needs a motivation for doing something, the writers default to having her quote Louisoix?

My previous post made it sound as if I was saying Alisaie's a bad character because she doesn't affect the plot, which is not what I meant to say. Rather, a well-written character would affect the story simply because they are a well-written character, not having the story tailored to them the way 3.4 was tailored to Alisaie. I cannot find a single instance where I implied that the poor writing of the plot was the fault of the characters. That is not the case in my opinion: I think that the poor writing is exactly what's causing the characters to be shafted so badly.

[RobinMalvin]

One thing to note is that in the very first scene with Emery, Alisaie's still quoting Louisoix's "To ignore the plight of those one might conceivably save is not wisdom—it is indolence." line. Hell, she's still quoting it in 3.55-3.56 (can't exactly remember if she did in 3.4 but I have a feeling she did).

Sure, maybe she does have other motivations for doing whatever she's doing. If so, can we get a clearer explanation on that? Why does it seem like any time she needs a motivation for doing something, the writers default to having her quote Louisoix?

I can't be sure if she did quote that line during her re-introductory story, but yes, she did quote it in 3.56 and personally, nothing is wrong with that. More than half of the casts like to quote Louisoix, with Urianger obviously the best example.

There is nothing wrong with quoting someone that is considered a national hero by all of Eorzea, less so if they have personal interaction with said hero. Louisoix was the driving force of the Circle movement, and the man behind the Scions founding. He's the reason for the twins coming to Eorzea. Louisoix was, and still is the reason why the Scions do what they do, some may even say he was their motive initially. Even so, each has found their own reason and motive to fight, not because Louisoix told them to, but because they, in each of their way, has come to believe in what Louisoix believed in. That newfound reason doesn't make them arrogant to cast Louisoix aside; if not for Louisoix in the first place, they may not come to this realization. So they honor him, quoting him time and again, not simply because they follow his creed but because they believe in his creed.

The poor plot writing is to blame, yes, but it was clear the writers still put much effort to show off the characters in more subtle ways. The characters, barring exceptional few, are absolutely so much well written and thought of while the plot story and the delivery just simply can't keep up.

[Mysterysword]

So they honor him, quoting him time and again, not simply because they follow his creed but because they believe in his creed.

I am fully aware and cognizant of the fact that the Scions quote Louisoix plenty of times, and why. There is no need to bring them up when the whole reason why I mentioned Alisaie's quoting of Louisoix had nothing to do with them in the first place. But the Scions do serve as a contrast to Alisaie. The problem I have with Alisaie quoting Louisoix's words, as I said before, is because it seems like she's using Louisoix's teachings as her motivation for doing anything, whether it be helping out Emery in her Tale, or re-joining the Scions. Because I get absolutely no impression from her that anything she does is truly of her own volition, as opposed to being of opinions and ideals that she absorbed from someone she idolised. And that irritates me, because if you want to present a strong character, that's not exactly the way to write them.

The rest of the Scions, in contrast, give me no such impression. I can easily believe that they do what they do, not because "Louisoix said it was the right thing to do", but simply because they want to do it.

I find it hilarious how with Minfilia, we had a diplomatic female character who stayed out of the action because she lacked combat skills. Now, with Alisaie, we have a combat-trained female character who stays out of the action because... she lacks diplomatic skills. Can we ever win?

The reason why the poor handling of Alisaie bothers me so much is: From the new outfit, the minion, and the buildup of the 3.4 story between 3.0 to 3.3, I conclude that SE wants to present Alisaie as a main member of the supporting cast. All well and good, except why does her character development seem so out-of-focus compared to the rest of the Scions? She had an entire patch to shine and yet it just fell flat. Instead of allowing her, as a character, to shape and drive the plot, the plot just forged on ahead, with her tagging along because she's "not the girl I once was". I suppose poisoned arrow wounds come with a side of Instant Character Development(TM).

Compare to, say, Thancred. Throughout 3.1 to 3.3, he had a handful of scenes and interactions, both to the player and the WoL, but in those few scenes, managed to show off just how he'd changed as a character, and provide a solid, simple, and clear explanation for why he'd changed. But try as I may, I cannot find a clear explanation for why Alisaie has suddenly changed from the way she was back in 2.0 (and let's put aside the Coils storyline, because if her Tale is canon, then Coils seems to have affected nothing at all), to joining the Scions in 3.4.

[RobinMalvin]

snip

Alisae has just as much a reason to quote and idolize her grandfather just like any Scion. Does the fact she quote him many times mean he hold him in high regard? Certainly. Does that mean she simply use his grandfather's teaching as an excuse? Maybe, if we consider Coil storyline non canon and her cutscenes in 3.4 is set aside but as it stands out, the probability of her simply emulating Louisoix is close to zero.

I suggest you rewatch the cutscene of 3.4, Beneath A Star Filled Sky. Just because she quote Louisoix, doesn't mean that's all everything in her head.

3.4 gave her lots of focus, and she's a brand new addition to Scions so it's not anything strange for her to be not the main focus in next plot. Even then, her growing character is obviously still showed without having to put her in the midst of story. She's new character, doesn't mean she has to suddenly affect and control the entire plot.

You judge her character too quick just after one patch of her re-introduction.

P.S

This rant posts have gone too long to be in lore focused forum.

[Belhi]

/snip

To be honest, I don't see much difference in how Alisaie is developed to how the other characters are. I am not sure why this bothers you specifically with Alisaie. That said, a good deal of her current development happened in Coils and was about her coming to understand her grandfather's choices. A good deal of her attitude towards the city states prior to that was colored by the fact she was mourning her Grandfather and projecting that at the city states. For her it felt like they were wasting his sacrifice even if that wasn't far. In coils she came to understand that and deal with her grief. She hadn't necessarily found why she wanted to protect Eorzea but she now accepted why her grandfather had and was open to looking on Eorzea with unbiased eyes. As for why she quotes her grandfather, it is because she believes a great deal in his wisdom and teaching and uses it as a basis for how she wants to live.

Beyond that she still has a lot of development to go which I expect we will see in SB. I think its highly likely Alisaie will be along for the ride and hopefully will get development much like Alphinaud did in HW. Its not like we are at the end of the story yet. Yugiri hasn't had much development either but she will be probably getting a great deal in SB. Beyond being a kick ass Ninja and the leader of refugees, we really don't know Yugiri well. She is a very reserved character and has never shown a great deal of emotion. It is one of the things I am looking forward to about Othard.