As a healer, is it my job to DPS? A new perspective.

[Sebazy]

It was ,however scaled without healer dps and made to be a challenge.

Whilst that's the official SE line, I flat out don't believe it and suspect the majority of people who did early progression in A4S (and to a far lesser extent, A8S) will agree. Healer DPS was required for those turns during progression.

While reading your post I was thinking 'but its suposed to be difficult, why are you complaining'

Oh I'm not complaining at all, if anything I think A12S is slightly too easy, doubly so given the ease of bypassing such significant portions of the fight.

Then sadly your post deteriorated into yet another poke at me and I AM qualified to talk about savage because I DO savage content

But you don't appear to understand it's intricacies and certainly not how difficult it can really be (Aka A1S-A8S).

and how can you possibly compare someone using mental health issues to try to derogate someone with experience of savage?

Hyper defensive. Stop it =(

[Wanzer]

Please stop throwing savage alex issues around Im sure your not qualified to do so and I think you need to look at whether your behaviour is appropriate here

The answer was just a few posts above you actually.

Im a casual player that loved healing on sch and got clears so I was happy. [...] I just like playing being relaxed. I dont want that pressure but still enjoy clearing stuff.

So i'm not sure at this point that her opinion is relevant about savage, or help this thread in a certain way now. Not that she can't share it obviously, or that her playstyle is awfully bad (or that she's wrong to play the way she wants), but at this point there is just no point to give her more answers than needed. Especially since her comments are off topic, and as we said many times that not being optimal outside of savage isn't an issue.

Even if she does savage now, that doesn't change facts. I mean, if tomorrow I decide to be a runner, I won't try to put all my thoughts about this on athletes doing the olympic games, or asking them to change their playstyle to fit with mine. Especially if I admitted being a casual. Or it would make no sense. And in the same way, I wouldn't feel offended by what they are able to do while I'm not. Especially if I don't want to make any efforts to change this. That doesn't mean that I couldn't run where I want, it would only mean that I shouldn't try to teach them to slow down, just for being able to run at their sides because of my lack of experience and/or confidence.
^this is an exaggerated example, so do not get your mind in a twist.

But honestly, I did enjoy your drop mic here, hehe.

Please stop throwing mental health issues around Im sure your not qualified to do so and I think you need to look at whether your behaviour is appropriate here

but will you stop having a poke at me it only shows up a possibility of some kind of obsession as this was dropped a few posts ago

couldn't resist, Doc Feyona. ^ ^v

Hyper defensive. Stop it =(

Unfortunately, yeah. But cheer up !

/disappear

[Feyona]

The answer was just a few posts above you actually.


So i'm not sure at this point that her opinion is relevant about savage, or help this thread in a certain way now. Not that she can't share it obviously

/disappear

Im not really sure this is even relevant but your argument is actually bordering on ridiculous as quoted there. If I do savage as a healer Im well qualified to comment on it wether Im a casual player or not it isnt your place to judge if any playstyle is allowed to do savage and really who are you ? With your assumptions about others and judgement about their game play or personality? Have you even tried to ask yourself seriousy how ridiculous some of your posts are? Like they arnt even logical. Like the one asking me to give you evidence of how you insulted me while insulting me and admitting you did so.

[Wanzer]

Oh boy, the edits keep coming...

Sorry guys ! I'm out now, I swear ! x)

But I put so much sugar on my previous comment, it's just so amazing !

[IttyBitty]

Whilst that's the official SE line, I flat out don't believe it and suspect the majority of people who did early progression in A4S (and to a far lesser extent, A8S) will agree. Healer DPS was required for those turns during progression.

Just chipping in on this, but you have to remember that they tune the fights for an ilevel that's much higher than what you'll have when a raid tier is released.

For development, such as with Bahamut's Coils, the development team assumes what the item level should be for general equipment on players when they clear a raid. They sum up the basic DPS for four DPS and tanks at that assumed item level and cut that by about 10-15% for the minimum clear DPS.

They may not count it when balancing, but healer DPS can contribute to a large chunk of the shortfall you'll have when essentially fighting under the "recommended iLevel".

[Lambdafish]

If I do savage as a healer Im well qualified to comment on it wether Im a casual player or not it isnt your place to judge if any playstyle is allowed to do savage

Wasn't it you that said that if you didn't play healer at savage level (regardless of how well rounded your savage knowledge is) you didn't have the right to comment? Why do you get to dictate who can and can't have an opinion, yet others can't?

They may not count it when balancing, but healer DPS can contribute to a large chunk of the shortfall you'll have when essentially fighting under the "recommended iLevel".

It also doesn't take into account rotational mistakes, meaning that what is generated is the absolute minimum DPS requirement for the party, whereas healer and tank DPS (yes, goring blade, storms eye, dark arts etc. Tanks don't complain about having rotations not relevant to their role) means that hitting this requirement is significantly easier. Healer and Tank DPS isn't small, and even if it was only saving 20 seconds of damage, that 20 seconds could still be the difference between enrage and not.

All in all, the "healer DPS isn't counted" argument is null and void unless the player is content with playing at the absolute minimum requirement of their group (which I wouldn't put past some players).

[Judge_Xero]

Whilst that's the official SE line, I flat out don't believe it and suspect the majority of people who did early progression in A4S (and to a far lesser extent, A8S) will agree. Healer DPS was required for those turns during progression.

Just chipping in on this, but you have to remember that they tune the fights for an ilevel that's much higher than what you'll have when a raid tier is released.

To put this further into perspective on the "Fights are not tuned for Healer DPS, stance"

- Based off best optimal DPS, less 10-15% (ideal comp, doing an ideal rotation for the fight. remember these guys design the fights and know exactly how to execute them)
- Includes optimal tank DPS

So yes, maybe the fights aren't tuned for healer DPS, but they are tuned for max DD and Tank DPS @ an appropriate ilvl.

So if your group doesn't have God-Tier tanks and DPS (100th %) then any help through healer DPS is somewhat needed.

Say on a brand new fight before any major optimizations can be made, your DPS and Tanks can pull a solid 85% efficiency, on a fight that's gauged to 90% efficiency @ whatever ilvl. (Say 10,000 Party DPS is all that's going out)

Only an extra 5% DPS, or 600 DPS is needed to clear the fight. Now I know it's easy to say that the DPS and tanks need to step up their game and start pushing out 100% efficiency, but for healers to add a small amount of DPS,
i.e.
Main Heals - 200 DPS
Off Heals - 400 DPS

Which is essentially keeping up dots and adding in a few other attacks where possible, is in the realm of possibility.

---------------------------------------

So really one can only make the argument that Raid fights are not designed with healer DPS in mind if they either:
A - Play with God-Tier DPS and Tanks 90th %
B - Don't mind waiting until 10% Echo and full gear cap

[Feyona]

Wasn't it you that said that if you didn't play healer at savage level (regardless of how well rounded your savage knowledge is) you didn't have the right to comment? Why do you get to dictate who can and can't have an opinion, yet others can't?





All in all, the "healer DPS isn't counted" argument is null and void unless the player is content with playing at the absolute minimum requirement of their group (which I wouldn't put past some players).

Did I say that where? If I did please show me that I said people that dont do content cant comment. What I actually said was if you dont play sch in savage you dont know what its like, same as I dont know what a tanks like (out of context and inaccurate lamdafish) Plus by now in my group (Im not optimal, hardly dps) and we one shot stuff,skipping the end of a9s and just about skipping adds if everyone stays alive that is in a10s

[Deliciou5]

Feyona is the greatest troll ever....or she is really that ignorant and totally uses the SJW way of thinking to the point where no one can convince her.

[Sebazy]

To further on Judge's comment. I don't think A4S' DPS requirement was an intentional design decision as frankly, it was as steep as anything I remember from SCOB savage back when they were current. I'm more inclined to believe it was an accidental byproduct of how they tested and balanced the encounters phase by phase rather than as a complete singular encounter.