Do Something About Duty Finder Already

[Ryel]

So i know you all stone anyone who considers playing Classes but i have a question for all of you:
Say i ready a DF as my Rogue, everything starts we're going good, my straight shot+ Internal Release combo allows me to put out the same amount of damage then if i was a Ninja since i have two critical hit power ups making almost ever attack is a critical, is that still bad?

I seriously want to know because it seems the ones playing the classes and finding these little tricks seem to know they're characters more then those "experts" playing as Jobs.

Yes it's bad, no you aren't doing the same amount as a NIN.

No NIN means no Ninjutsu for starters which means:

No Huton = DPS loss
No Katon = AoE DPS loss
No Doton = AoE DPS loss
No Raiton = single target DPS loss
No Suiton = no Trick Attack = flat 10% DPS loss for the entire party each instance it isn't used.
No Kassatsu = no extra Raiton / Katon = DPS loss

You also lose a few OGCds and utility skills which are a decent amount of damage and party usefulness:

No Dream within a Dream = DPS loss
No Duality = DPS loss
No Shadewalker = Utility loss
No Smoke Screen = Utility loss

Oh, and no Armor Crush to extend the Huton you aren't able to use anyway because you're a Rogue.

The numbers aren't in your favor, at 60 there's no way you are contributing the same sustained numbers and utility as a rogue as you would if you went NIN because the game ensures that classes have no usefulness past 30.

[Vorx]

I will let a ninja main answer that because I don't know about the specifications of the job, but generally speaking a soul crystal gives you not only the ability of that job, also a boost in the stats(can't recall now the amount). Anyway, by not getting it equipped you will lose abilities from the class 30-60. Cross class skills don't make up to them. If you are soloing play what you will, with players, please, don't do that.

More then you think they do.

Yes it's bad, no you aren't doing the same amount as a NIN.

No NIN means no Ninjutsu for starters which means:

No Huton = DPS loss
No Katon = AoE DPS loss
No Doton = AoE DPS loss
No Raiton = single target DPS loss
No Suiton = no Trick Attack = flat 10% DPS loss for the entire party each instance it isn't used.
No Kassatsu = no extra Raiton / Katon = DPS loss

You also lose a few OGCds and utility skills which are a decent amount of damage and party usefulness:

No Dream within a Dream = DPS loss
No Duality = DPS loss
No Shadewalker = Utility loss
No Smoke Screen = Utility loss

Oh, and no Armor Crush to extend the Huton you aren't able to use anyway because you're a Rogue.

The numbers aren't in your favor, at 60 there's no way you are contributing the same sustained numbers and utility as a rogue as you would a NIN because the game ensures that classes have no usefulness past 30.

So all that and yet people only use Huton? ok..

[Ryel]

So all that and yet people only use Huton? ok..

No, a good NIN will use every ability i've listed at some point depending on the situation.

Large trash pulls of 3+ mobs?

Throw down a Doton

Trash pull that wont last during a Doton?

Toss out a Katon.

Huton should be up full time with Armor Crush to refresh, Raiton or Fuma Shuriken should be used between Trick attacks on single target and as part of the TA combo with Suiton -> Kassatsu.

Shadewalker on the tank during your burst to bump hate on single target, Smoke Screen on healer or another DPS to party manage aggro.

If you think NIN is nothing but keeping Huton up then you've been playing it wrong.

[Vorx]

I have yet to see ANY Ninja use anything but Huton, they don't even use the Jutsu auto refresh.

[Tachyon]

I have yet to see ANY Ninja use anything but Huton, they don't even use the Jutsu auto refresh.

What? Huton is great, but once you cast that you shouldn't have to refresh it with your mudra anymore with armor crush

Most NINs I've seen will use trick attack during opening on each boss (and then again every 60 seconds or so). BFB+Kassatsu Doton during aoe.... I will admit some don't use shadewalker/smokescreen as much, but it does happen.

I think you are kind of underestimating how much that 10% raidwide damage increase counts for.

[Vorx]

I never said its a good set, i'm saying i never, NEVER see other Ninja use it. Ever. All i ever see anyone else use is Huton, that is all.

[Ryel]

I never said its a good set, i'm saying i never, NEVER see other Ninja use it. Ever. All i ever see anyone else use is Huton, that is all.

Then you are likely seeing either bad or lazy NINs, which ironically is exactly one of the points the thread is talking about.

[Vorx]

Then you are likely seeing either bad or lazy NINs, which ironically is exactly one of the points the thread is talking about.

Right, but another thing is the Classes thing. As a Class you can help more, Classes get Eye for an Eye sooner, Mantra sooner (which despite what most thinks can give Healer a big hand if the Tank is a paper Tank.), Virus, as well as a few other power ups you may not get if that Job isn't in the run.
Personally if its just one Class that is normally ok, its just two or more is the problem. And if the Class is a DPS role then its not as bad.

That said there are only two roles that could get away with Classes anyway, Healer and DPS. Tanks could not get away with it.

[Tachyon]

I never said its a good set, i'm saying i never, NEVER see other Ninja use it. Ever. All i ever see anyone else use is Huton, that is all.

I think you are just seeing bad NINs then, not sure how there are that many around, but this thread is trying to address that too I guess.

So i know you all stone anyone who considers playing Classes but i have a question for all of you:
Say i ready a DF as my Rogue, everything starts we're going good, my straight shot+ Internal Release combo allows me to put out the same amount of damage then if i was a Ninja since i have two critical hit power ups making almost ever attack is a critical, is that still bad?

I seriously want to know because it seems the ones playing the classes and finding these little tricks seem to know they're characters more then those "experts" playing as Jobs.

Though to answer your class vs job question...
I'm not a math major or anything, but I don't think even IR+Hawks Eye+Raging Strikes+BFB is sustainable dps compared to the plethora of skills you get in exchange for equipping your job stone.

Right, but another thing is the Classes thing. As a Class you can help more, Classes get Eye for an Eye sooner, Mantra sooner (which despite what most thinks can give Healer a big hand if the Tank is a paper Tank.), Virus, as well as a few other power ups you may not get if that Job isn't in the run.
Personally if its just one Class that is normally ok, its just two or more is the problem. And if the Class is a DPS role then its not as bad.

That said there are only two roles that could get away with Classes anyway, Healer and DPS. Tanks could not get away with it.

Even utility wise... in a group setting your party members will be covering those skills anyway. Virus has a debuff timer, so you can't spam it. A Monk's Mantra is much better than a non traited cross-classed 5%. Eye for an eye is not something I would give up Job skills for either.

[Vorx]

Tachyon
@1.
Your most likely right, lately though the Job "experts are the ones who seem worse then the class people.

@2.
I actually had times i hit harder then some Job people using the Straight Shot + Internal Release combo.

@3.
Actually it does help, it gives the Tank a counter like boost, kinda just a bit of extra DPS damage really. As for Virus yeah its ok at the start, but loses its usefulness later. Even i barely use it. Still its nice to have that option, a quick power/intel down. Less damage on the tank, less the healer has to worry.

See when i use Class its as a support role nothing else, i do it for the buffs, needless to say RDM is the Job i've been waiting for since it will do all this. Buts still till then i would like to say this to everyone who disagrees. Try it, just for a few runs, figure out all the tricks that make us defend this style.