Do Something About Duty Finder Already

[NoblePigeon]

I kinda get sick of hearing the adage " You don't pay my sub, I play how I want". It's BS. Unless you are totally solo playing, your socialist attitude

...Uh, what?

[Owl_Hawk]

to being spiteful/Titan 2.0

I dont know why you would assume I am being spiteful...or where in my post suggests that...Using your example of Titan...There were many issues..first of all the server response rate was capped and there were delays for some people and since that fight getting hit = get thrown out...people complained about this and they DID sort it out. But look at the other reasons though...If players knew how to play their roles better...ie heal people up quick after the jump/stomps...know how to dps which means the heart would go down (which MANY wiped because of that..I remember too well)..etc..THAT can be fixed with training and a system that makes a player be SURE they ARE infact playing that job/role properly...many people THINK they are playing right but only after one asks them what they are doing etc do they realize that alot of what they were doing was wrong...the threat system in this game is different than other MMOs for example...other MMOs as tank you basically dps and you will get threat with the stance..in this game you have to use enmity comboes...and many people have no clue til now how it works...you have to do alot of research...but instead of them saying "Rage of Halone Combo gives 6x your damage as threat to the monster...1x if not"..I've seen many just spam Rage of Halone WITHOUT the combo thinking this game is like others where each ability is unique (other games don't really have combo systems for example) and I feel this could EASILY be taught in a test every 10 levels..so a PLD at 30 taking the test and they just got Rage of Halone at 26 that "hmm..holding threat with the ability alone isnt working...NPC keeps taking aggro..." and at the failure..they can say "Use Fast Blade > Savage Blade > Rage of Halone to gain the most threat on your enemy" and they learned..its VERY VERY simple to impliment..it is not elitist but USEFUL and will help those with a low understanding of MMOs or a low skill cap learn quicker and improve..but just throwing people on others in a DF is not a solution because maybe those others dont know how to play that role such as tank.

[AlexanderThorolund]

Welcome to MMO's everyone pays a fee so they can play their way.

Just quoting this in hopes that the OP sees it enough times for it to burn into their retinas.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Just quoting this in hopes that the OP sees it enough times for it to burn into their retinas.

Everyone who pays rent gets to live in the place they're renting. Doesn't mean they're free to use the place for illicit means. . . Or does law and common sense not apply because they pay their rent?

If perhaps the metaphor is lost:
Paying a sub doesn't excuse you from not performing up to par in any aspect of the game that requires you to work as part of a team with anyone. "Going as fast as the slowest person" isn't a terrible mindset to work with, but if that person isn't even running, or trying to justify that they don't have to run, then there's a problem.

[Nixxe]

It can be frustrating in a multiplayer game when you feel like your teammates aren't preforming up to your standard. However, I don't think there's much that can be done.
I'd wager that the average player of any game is not that good at it. Only certain players care about improvement in and of itself, others are happy if they're winning and will cheerfully do what they want until they hit a wall. At which point they will either improve themselves or move on to another game.

SE could impose a challenge that must be passed before queuing. My understanding is that WoW had something like that called Proving Grounds but eventually dropped it as a requirement to queue.
Most likely the people who approve of such gating can pass it without issue while those that actually need to improve will only be motivated to complain about it or move elsewhere.

The PG requirement was something of a train wreck and I never saw any noticeable improvement in the quality of my random groups from it, though there are plenty who will insist it was one of the best things Blizzard ever did. Given what level of player those people tend to be though (ie usually people who think clearing part of a mythic tier months late is impressive), I'm really inclined to interpret their love of it as a combination of a lack of perspective and general ineptitude. It's possible that it could have been more effective with proper implementation, but I'm inclined to say that things like Hall of the Novice and simply letting people get their feet wet in actual group content without first needing to demonstrate all of the skills they should acquire from doing group content are much better suited and more productive, even if that means sometimes they're the weak link in a party that can clear just fine all the same.

[Kaurie]

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, i just feel like it's way more uncommon than its made out to be.
And even if they did remove classes alltogether, people wouldn't become better all of sudden.

I don't think that removing classes is the solution. I really like the class system, and thought it was a great way to encourage me to try out the various roles. I would have never made an Arcanist had I not needed it for another job, and SMN/SCH ended up being my main for 2.x & 3.x.

I think that the game does a pretty poor job of teaching people how to play their role, but more importantly I feel the game is to forgiving for poor play. I would support a system similar to WoW's proving grounds. Where before you can queue in for the equivalent of expert, you need to pass a few tests vs various mobs that test your ability to do adequate damage, positioning and interrupts. I also agree with the OP that you should be prevented from queuing into dungeons post Haukke as a class. When queuing in the Duty Finder, you should receive a message that you cannot enter as a class and must unlock your job, with a helpfile explaining what a job is and how to unlock it.

Everyone who pays rent gets to live in the place they're renting. Doesn't mean they're free to use the place for illicit means. . . Or does law and common sense not apply because they pay their rent?

If perhaps the metaphor is lost:
Paying a sub doesn't excuse you from not performing up to par in any aspect of the game that requires you to work as part of a team with anyone. "Going as fast as the slowest person" isn't a terrible mindset to work with, but if that person isn't even running, or trying to justify that they don't have to run, then there's a problem.

I think a better analogy would be if you were to pay money to join a competitive sports team, and then showed up and just sat there. Your team would be understandably mad, and would have every right to call you out on it. Your coach would have every right to bench you if you didn't improve.

[Kyuuen]

Everyone who pays rent gets to live in the place they're renting. Doesn't mean they're free to use the place for illicit means. . . Or does law and common sense not apply because they pay their rent?

If perhaps the metaphor is lost:
Paying a sub doesn't excuse you from not performing up to par in any aspect of the game that requires you to work as part of a team with anyone. "Going as fast as the slowest person" isn't a terrible mindset to work with, but if that person isn't even running, or trying to justify that they don't have to run, then there's a problem.

And yet I don't recall ever seeing a rule/law stating everyone MUST apply themselves to a certain extent. You can claim DPS checks are an example of that but they're not. They are checks to see if the group is up to par mechanically/performance wise. If the group isn't, try offering advice. If you feel you are above that; I hate to break it to you, then you're part of the problem. If they refuse change and advice kick them or ask to be kicked yourself.

Otherwise get a fixed party with people whom you can rely on to meet the criteria you wish fulfilled.

Expecting perfection from Duty finder is like expecting Society in RL to all have the same beliefs/values. It's a daft notion, and one that won't soon happen.

[RaijinSupreme]

Everyone who pays rent gets to live in the place they're renting. Doesn't mean they're free to use the place for illicit means. . . Or does law and common sense not apply because they pay their rent?

You can't use a place you pay rent for for illicit means because it is illegal, or goes against the rules, terms and conditions set by the owner on the contract you signed and agreed to.

Being a bad player is not against the rules of the game, and does not go against the Terms of Service set by Square Enix and the development team. There are explicit things that go against the TOS, not being a good player isn't one of them.

The comparison doesn't stick, try again.

[Nixxe]

Everyone who pays rent gets to live in the place they're renting. Doesn't mean they're free to use the place for illicit means. . . Or does law and common sense not apply because they pay their rent?

If perhaps the metaphor is lost:
Paying a sub doesn't excuse you from not performing up to par in any aspect of the game that requires you to work as part of a team with anyone. "Going as fast as the slowest person" isn't a terrible mindset to work with, but if that person isn't even running, or trying to justify that they don't have to run, then there's a problem.

The equivalent of the terms of your lease would be the Terms of Service, not the whims of any random group of people in the Dungeon Finder.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

No, no one HAS to apply themselves. But think about that for a moment. . .

I don't feel like making effort. . .
You don't feel like making effort. . .
Those other 2 guys in the party don't either. . .

So what then? Nothing gets done, the party disbands, someone complains "it's too hard" or "I can't clear this (because I'm not trying and no one else is either)". . . And the bar. Gets. Lower.

Welp, see you in Stormblood. I suppose the most exciting endgame experience will be Kugane hide & seek, or something.